AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

But Emmy wouldn’t that make them feel singled out? Little Johnnie has to go back to School early because he’s poor but well off Jemima is off to Mauritius with the fam posting on Instagram every five mins.

I do think that more schooling and shorter holiday for those who are less well off is a good idea. It keeps them out of trouble, saves parents worrying about them

How on earth would this work in practice though?

The ‘poor’ kids wouldn’t get to look forward to the summer holidays. They would have to carry on trudging to school each day whilst their mates are out and about having fun-they’d see it all over social media. They would be targets for bullies-‘ha ha, the poor kids still have to go to school!’

Who would teach them?

It wouldn’t be all teachers working all summer and having a tiny class of 6 to give individual care to as there wouldn’t be the funding for it. It would probably be something like two university students prepared to do it on the cheap-with 60 kids shoved in the school hall (whilst the classrooms were being painted, repaired and deep cleaned). They’d all want to be at home or with their mates but are caged up at school instead. Behaviour would be a real issue.

That’s not helping address inequality.

my father is a head teacher at a private school he whole heartily agrees with me

Well, that’s settled then.

Has your father suggested where the funds for the ‘poor kids’ summer schools will come from?

Has your father suggested where the funds for the ‘poor kids’ summer schools will come from?

Maybe he’ll open up his private school doors for the summer and do it there!

Commie boiler-suits for all.

Phew. I thought we'd all have to wear Primark.

Wonder what happens to people who go abroad and dare to buy, say, a non-standard T-shirt and bring it back.

Shorter holiday's wouldn't work for us, because Dh & Ds go off every summer to have a long adventure together. However I appreciate we are lucky. We both work for flexible employers and are able to juggle the holiday period by taking time off or working from home. Our budgets don't change because they don't get FSM.

So why don't we put our heads together and come up with a coherent ask of our politicians that mitigates the downsides of the long summer holidays but does not have an unintended consequence.

The problems relating to the current 6- 8 week break (from here) seem to be a) kids forget what they have learnt if it is not reinforced regularly b) Cost of feeding kids who would normally receive FSM c)child boredom, &/or cost of keeping them entertained.

However if the holidays were shortened problems would be a) competition for fewer holiday time leave amongst working parents, b) teachers need the break to plan for the year coming (and get to spend some time with their own families) c) some families plan long holidays d) schools need time to maintain buildings

Looking at the lists ( I am not saying this is right so chip in with ideas) - if you shorten the holidays you increase expenditure relating to all students using specialised teaching staff . By retaining the longer holiday the ill effects of the long holiday could be offset using subsidised holiday activities for those that need them. Using less specialised staff &/or existing provision ( I think the holiday card a PP said they had is a fab idea) it would be cheaper than keeping the school open for longer.

The current system of not holiday provision and long holidays - is not an option in my view. Yes it could be argued that we should budget for every part of life cycle and children should be considered a luxury, but that ignores these are the people who will be supporting our pensions, wiping our arses and making sure we live to a ripe old age in some form of comfort. They are a resource we all need to look after and nurture - even if we didn't personally contribute to bring them into the world.

You wouldn't expect as an adult to never have a break from work

Adults get about 6 weeks over the full year - kids get 6 weeks in the summer out of a total of about 13 weeks. Quite a difference!!

The problems relating to the current 6- 8 week break (from here) seem to be a) kids forget what they have learnt if it is not reinforced regularly

Our experiences are that the teachers are demo happy from mid June, so for the last few weeks of term, there's little proper teaching/learning, so it's not just 6 weeks off, it's more like 10 weeks of no real teaching.

Having some sort of facility attached to schools in areas like ours which open during the holidays and provide help, activities, advice and food would be a better suggestion. We could call the something like children’s centres

We benefited from these and cheap activites when the kids were young and we were struggling finacially and many though not all families with diffciulties were reached and took up their services.

By time we left they had so many cuts they were struggling to stay open and our nearest had to run a local community based campaign to stop being closed completely by council including the council nursury they ran that many families in the deprived area used that was rated outstanding.

When i was a child we never did anything during the summer holidays, maybe 1 week away in the uk or abroad but that was it.

Parents these days seem to want to entertain their kids 24/7, there is nothing wrong with days at home playing with toys, garden, park, films etc.

I agree with the poster who said that it makes inequality between rich and poor more visible rather than necessarily a driver of inequality. Having said that i do think that they are responsible for keeping women unequal in relationships, a different type of inequality.

Maybe he’ll open up his private school doors for the summer and do it there!

He probably definitely will.

The assertion that only families that can afford childcare should have children is unreasonable, as are the comments about school buildings and teachers contracts. These are all unhelpful distractions from the bigger picture.

And the absolute tosh about where is the money coming from - our children are an investment into tomorrow. Would we all genuinely prefer for our children to grow up in wildly unequal ways - some going to museums and visiting gardens and others barely eating and potentially having lesser life chances?

The entire education system is publicly funded for good reason that a skilled and educated workforce is great for how.a country thrives - economically and socially. Therefore a free education system should work for all.

If we have now got to a stage - where I think we are now - where we have built a holiday system that puts growing numbers of children at risk and is embedding inequality at early years, then the public funded system has to adapt to the needs of the population. Otherwise what is the point of the public investment if it does not serve all.

I think it's time for new ideas and solutions be that extra investment into school buildings and play areas so that they remain open as public buildings throughout the year. Be that adapting the nature of teachers contracts that soften out the inequality over holiday periods, and certainly an all year approach to children's learning that includes formal and informal education.

Maybe camps are the best way forward that give all children access to planting, growing things, museum trips and all such things that increasingly only wealthy families can afford.

Surely there is a different way?

The assertion that only families that can afford childcare should have children is unreasonable, as are the comments about school buildings and teachers contracts. These are all unhelpful distractions from the bigger picture.

They are not distractions but all important things to be considered.

You are unhappy with the situation but lots of people aren’t.

The holidays are not going to change any time soon.

It’s a strange system isn’t it? You must make sure your child attends or you could go to jail....except for when the system deems it time for a long break. Your child gets a taste of freedom, then back into the system again and God forbid they need more than 4% of days off sick!

I’d love six weeks off in the summer, or even longer. But that doesn’t fit in with an employer that needs me to be present as usual and for production to continue. It’s fine if you’re an academic. The school system isn’t set up for a world where parents work!

Someone said “imagine adults working without a break”. Sadly that time is already here. I haven’t had a break during the working day for five years. And my employer is found all it can to crush morale. Still, that’s another issue.

Not really singled out, yes I do agree that those who don't have to attend school during holidays will make Comments/ the student will get upset seeing there peers posh on social media BUT. They won't be doing anything else during the holiday, it's not like they can afford to go on holiday, the parents don't care. At least being in. School a bit longer they can catch up on studies missed and get ahead of subjects that they aren't very confident in. The money can come from the government. In the long run it would safe teenagers from disadvantaged areas getting into serious trouble and resulting in crime. God no!
Unfortunately my fathers school only accepts whose who've passed the 11+ and are accidentally bright.

Be that adapting the nature of teachers contracts that soften out the inequality over holiday periods, and certainly an all year approach to children's learning that includes formal and informal education.

Using words like soften, adapting and approach are just euphemisms for the destruction of teachers’ pay and conditions.

Reopening children’s centres and funding support for them over the summer for parents in poverty to access, would be far more sensible than simply increasing the number of days spent ‘learning’ for the whole state system.

Surely there is a different way?

There are many different ways. However, what disadvantages one child advantages another. How do you plan on picking which children you disadvantage?

*My non teaching job is dire, but I have the added struggle of finding childcare for all the holidays as my leave entitlement doesn't cover them all. There are plenty of people in shitty jobs who don't have that time off.

For those of us who need childcare it's extortionate, the region I live in has the highest childcare costs in the country and some of the most impoverished areas, those two things don't mix for a 6 week break especially where parents can't save in advance because they have no spare money and suddenly have to pay for childcare and extra food, take unpaid leave or leave children alone to go to work. And that's on top of the school hours being so different to most working hours.*

But this is nothing new. Surely you knew this and considered it before having children??

I'm also not trying to be goody but I just don't get a lot of these responses - nothing new has happened in the world of schooling vs holidays. It's the same system we all grew up in (with a lot less entertainment) so surely you planned ahead before having children and knew what to expect???? What did you think would happen when you had them?

*goady even!

Well said @Unescorted

And the absolute tosh about where is the money coming from - our children are an investment into tomorrow.

You’re railing at the wrong people.

You need to be organising a lobby of government to properly fund these activities. No point telling people who are simply pointing it out to you that there is no money because the government have stopped funding these things.

But this is nothing new. Surely you knew this and considered it before having children??

do you not have the capacity to understand that sometimes life turns out different? divorce, unemployment, illness, disability, etc...

nobody saves up the childcare fees for children before they are born. seems you have lived a very sheltered existence if you have never experienced true hardship.

Maybe camps are the best way forward that give all children access to planting, growing things, museum trips and all such things that increasingly only wealthy families can afford

Unless there’s a charge that just takes even more responsibility from the parents and more onto the state (well taxpayers).

Far better to make parents step up and change their children’s lives. They are the main role model that children see and are likely to copy.

I think moving one week to before Christmas is the best idea as the Christmas period is always such a panic.

I would like another week at Whitsun as well as the weather is better in May these days but I do appreciate the issues with exams.

I would support the idea of a state funded playscheme run at every school during the school holidays where every child is entitled to one week over the 6 week period (not run by teachers). This would help both working parents and disadvantaged families. If parents wanted more then they can pay for it and would be cheaper than private schemes as they'd only be paying for staff rather than premises as well.