AIBU to say that summer hols are a driver of inequality

[Teaandcrisps]

Myself and OH have had mixed personal fortune over the last 10 years - so from personal experience know the difference.

Summer holidays with no money is shit - especially when the weather is crap. If you can afford it however, it's great fun.

It's not just the obvious things - summer hols, trips, activities, camps, increase in food costs; it's also if you have the kind of job that can give you time off.

Given that food bank have launched the holiday hunger campaign, AIBU to say that summer holidays is an unequal construct and the 6-weeks off needs to go.

I’m with you OP. I’m a teacher and mother and 6 weeks is a loooong time to fill. I would prefer 4 weeks holiday with the other 2 weeks split between May and October.

Interested to hear what teachers think from the pov of what is best for children, particularly those children from less privileged backgrounds?

There is a close link between what is best for teachers and what is best for pupils, imo. Teachers do care about what is best for students but teachers and schools cannot be held responsible for ending social inequality. That is just not fair. Some real money needs to be spent at family level, in the early years and in particularly deprived areas. Tinkering around with school holidays will do FA. But it fits the narrative of the right to say 'selfish teachers don't want to cut their holidays for the sake of the children' etc etc (Not saying anyone on this thread has said that, but that's what it would boil down to if it became a big national debate in the press.)

I just think the question I pasted above is a dangerous one to an extent because it's not all down to teachers and schools to deal with social problems - they have a role but can't do it alone.

I’m completely agree OP. The holidays are far too long atm. Ours are even longer where we are. It’s just so unfair on the working parents having to juggle childcare for the kids. It just becomes untenable. I’m sure teachers wouldn’t like a reduction in their holiday. Who would but I don’t believe it’s beneficial for the kids who become deskilled unless their parents are totally on top of daily reading/ tutoring. Four weeks would be absolutely perfect.

So you are happy for the poorest children to bear the burden of long summers - to go without? And for some families we are not talking about not being able to go on walks in nature reserves or have a summer holidays - we're talking about going without food.

There is smtg really wrong if the school system perpetuates inequality dont you think?

I would be really upset to loose this time with DC.

Not everyone has that time with dc though. That's the point of the post.

Yes, it’s the gist of the OP, but the pp doesn’t have to be happy to lose her time with her DC just because others aren’t in the same circumstances.

It would cost far less to put in place free holiday activities than it would to pay teachers (and all associated staff) to work longer.

I’m a teacher and I’d love to see a two week October half term as the September to Christmas term is such a long one (especially as my school like to start the Christmas break very close to Christmas Day after pressure from primary school parents) Not so keen on February as the weather is poor and sadly, as so many PP have said, the exams in May would make two weeks then for Y11-13 impossible with current exam timings and detrimental for students without supportive parents if there was an official 2 week exam gap on the timetable.

I don’t mean to be goady, but surely most people realised there would be a 6 week school holiday to fill when they chose to have children? It shouldn’t have come as a massive surprise!

I think you make a really valid point and they could be shorter adding longer onto October and February when the nights are darker and they're tired one week isn't enough then! I also think having so much time off creates a lot of anxiety in many children when going back.

Four weeks would be enough!

On the one hand, we would need to invest more (quite rightly) in teachers pay and conditions to make it work if school term time was increased.

Ultimately I believe this is the real agenda.

No one will ever agree on the merits of redistribution of the holidays. What they really want is all year round —daycare—schooling.

Corbyn would put this right. Transfer the money from the entitled rich to the struggling poor. Put us all on an equal footing. Nationalise all housing and land. Remove the monarchy. Ban capitalism from the country. Take charge of all the countries privately held gold. Make a reserve of all of the private pension wealth for bumps along the way. Standardise clothing. Ban cars and make public transport free. Abolish the army, navy and Air Force. Let anybody who wants to come her be able to.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re joking or not

(I’m assuming you joking are as a fortnight ago Corbyn couldn’t muster a party representative at the request of Channel 4 news, so I’m not sure how he’d rapidly and efficiently effect all of those measures).

I understand many families struggle, but I strongly feel most children still need and deserve the time off to be children. I think they should be longer, include more of July with the nicer weather as well, and the govt should help low income families instead.

“They don’t seem to appreciate that a middle class white boy going to the park to play football has a very different experience to a poor black boy from broadwater farm”

This gave me a chuckle because the one “middle class white boy” I know spent his summer rock climbing in Borneo (he is 14).
Middle class kids don’t spend their summers doing free activities.

Or do what they do in the states: pay teachers who want to stay on in the summer extra to run summer school for x number of weeks of the summer holidays and allow families that struggle to send their children.

No one will ever agree on the merits of redistribution of the holidays. What they really want is all year round —daycare—schooling.

This!! And for free! 🙄

When I was growing up in an official "area of deprevation" in the 80s & 90s, all school kids were given a "summer pass". It got us into various council facilities nd on buses for free or for pennies. E.g. swimming, golf, bouncy castle sessions, badminton, etc. Libraries had lots on in the holidays. We went swimming every day.

This summer, every single one of those facilities in the same area are closed, or running very short hours.

That is what needs to change.

Do you only know one middle class white boy? Plenty of middle class children play in the park 🤔

@darkcloudsandsunnyskies
“You are of course correct. Holidays are a time for the wealthy to flaunt their greed. Corbyn would put this right. Transfer the money from the entitled rich to the struggling poor. Put us all on an equal footing. Nationalise all housing and land. Remove the monarchy. Ban capitalism from the country. Take charge of all the countries privately held gold. Make a reserve of all of the private pension wealth for bumps along the way. Standardise clothing. Ban cars and make public transport free. Abolish the army, navy and Air Force. Let anybody who wants to come her be able to.

In case anything goes wrong and to be reasonably sure I would set up a commission of all social groups to check on a country where this approach has been tried to examine any pitfalls or setbacks.”

Here is a list of countries that tried the type of extreme socialism you describe so far- USSR, Mao’s China, Venezuela.

Darkcloudsandsunnyskies
Yes there should be more support for poorer families over the summer. But,
Take private pension wealth?
Standardised clothing?
Nothing will change so long as Corbyn continues with his frankly terrifying ideas.
What the Labour party needs is a decent sensible leader like Andy Burnham who is actually electable.

I do agree that the 6 week holiday is maybe too long for kids, the backsliding of skills is a real and documented phenomenon. I'd agree with an extra week in October and February, but I do live in a part of the UK that's usually pretty nice in October.

An extra week in October would help break up a long term for younger students and could have the benefit of extending the UK tourist season. The autumn term can be really long and a struggle for students and staff!

I agree with others that two weeks in May or an extra week at Easter would be problematic for exam classes and teachers would end up having to work anyway. It could work for primary schools, but lots of people don't like their children having different holidays!

I think extending the school term is tough- a lot of students are very tired by the end of term, especially before Christmas and do really need the breaks they get. I agree that filling school holidays can be tricky for parents, especially those on a low income.

I do think for the money you'd end up spending to open schools for longer, there could be subsidised play schemes, trips and activities put on to help people. Giving disadvantaged kids enrichment and cultural capital is important too!

I also do think that any decision about schools has to be made in the context of the teacher shortage in the UK - at the moment, we really can't afford to have experienced teachers leaving the profession for any reason.

What kind of investment in teachers conditions would be an improvement on the holidays? And why could we not invest the large amount of money that would go on extra salaries into the actual communities that need the help?

@colourlessgreenidea

I do not think I am joking but I am not really sure.

It is accepted by the rich themselves that the pendulum has swung too far. If they don’t do something about it the people will.

I hate poverty but it is built into the system. I don’t like people being homeless.

The OP has raised such a good point and we should examine it from all sides. There has to be some merit somewhere in new ideas.

How awful for a lot of children to realise so young that that is it that is the way their life is no holidays and all the other joys poverty brings.

Poverty is avoidable it should not be built into the system. I hate it.

This only works if you increase the number of days children are in school.
If it is the same number of holidays but spread differently, then childcare is still an issue, just at different times
However, if the number of days are the same, but the holidays spaced differently, then in my view consideration should be given to the fact that it is easier to keep children amused in the summer, when the weather is more likely to be fine.
Having extra days off in October, (colder, wet and windy and dark at 6.30 pm) is only the answer if you have the money to go abroad.
Extra days in May would be great, except older children are in the middle of exams.
Also, it means the annual summer ‘get away’, would be squeezed into fewer summer weeks.

@Passthecherrycoke
“Do you only know one middle class white boy? Plenty of middle class children play in the park 🤔”

My point is that children playing in a park all summer are not likely to be true middle class but working class.

@frenchknitting I’m guessing because there was a government change and they realized that the country couldn’t afford to keep it up! And because everyone also still needs and wants a free nhs, subsidized childcare, etc etc. “not sustainable” comes to mind.

Four weeks would be enough!

I used to live in South Africa and the kids school had four even terms with more even holidays. It was so, so much better than the UK system. The terms were less tiring and the holidays more enjoyable,