To ask DP not to ask BIL to be groomsman?

[MrsBendurdickCuminmysnatch]

Sorry it's long... some facts changed for anonymity.

DP and I are getting married next year. DP wants his 2 best mates and his oldest brother as groomsmen. It’s the brother I am against. His brother is a nice enough man and I have no personal beef with him. However, his wife is a nightmare, and I want to ask him not to ask his brother because of her. For the following explanation and examples, let’s call her W. I’ll refer to DP’s brother as BIL.

W is manipulative. She’s passive aggressive. Shes mean. But mostly, she's controlling and a total drama queen. I am worried that asking BIL to be involved will essentially mean that she will be, by default, involved and will hold everyone to ransom for silly things. E.g:

1. W treats BIL like shit. BIL has had counselling and is depressed. He wont leave her though because in their country fathers have no real rights on a divorce and she has threatened to stop him seeing the kids. Whenever he is involved in anything, she has to know everything about it and be involved too. She checks his phone and gives her 2 cents at all times. BIL actually has a secret phone at work for calling family so she doesn't know.

1. DP and BIL have a brother who is married to a lady called S. W will not talk to S and absolutely hates her. They haven't been in the same room for years because W prevents BIL from seeing the other brother and S. We all have to make sure not to mention S or even the other brother in front of W. There is no good reason for this, though consensus is that she just doesn’t like that BIL and S used to have mutual friends etc. More importantly, when the other brother and S got married, BIL and W were invited and W caused mayhem. She tried to tell everyone that she had no issue with them, but BIL did, so she and the kids should go alone without BIL. Nobody believed this or was having any of it so she was told it was both her and BIL or nobody. They RSVPed saying they would go, but there was no sign of them. Halfway through dinner, they turned up, wanting to make an entrance during one of the speeches – her in a cream dress – but they were duly prevented from entering by half of DP's family. W now considers that she was hard done by and that this was all awful. It's caused so many rows since that I can absolutely see similar issues arising next year.

1. Recently, BIL and W were supposed to visit us. At the last minute, BIL called DP to say W was upset and didnt want to come because DP had excluded them from a private family facebook account. BIL had previously been asked if he wanted to join but declined because S uploads pics of her kids on there. W had insisted that BIL call DP to shout at him about this. After DP told him where to go, 15 mins later BIL called back from his secret phone to apologise and explain that she was forcing him to do this, even though he knew it was all rubbish. DP wasn't having any of it so they did visit but she goaded BIL into mentioning it again later, which caused an almighty row between BIL and DP in a pub.

1. Before BIL and W's wedding, W announced that she didnt like the fascinator MIL had chosen. 2 days later a new fascinator turned up on the doorstep of MIL's house. MIL didn't wear it. Cue more rows.

1. At BIL and W's wedding, W refused to enter the reception until MIL removed her jacket as it was too similar a colour to W's own mother's dress. BIL had to go and get her and calm her down. She wouldn't speak to MIL all day after that.

1. Other 2 groomsmen live overseas so can't organise the stag do. If BIL is asked that will be his role. But BIL isn't generally allowed out, so W will have some sort of control over what is allowed / will cause issues. Usually, when BIL goes out she calls over and over with various issues until he cracks and goes home.

My concern re the wedding is that we can't win. She's a drama queen and everything has to be on her terms.

If we ask BIL to be a groomsman, she will have some issue 2 days before which will hold us all to ransom - we'll have paid for a suit and arranged thinsg around 3 groomsmen and we'll have to appease her to ensure things continue smoothly, no matter what she asks. I imagine it will be something to do with other brother and S, but tbh it could be anything...

If we don;t ask him though, she will bitch that he has been left out - particularly as DP was a groomsman at their wedding.

My view is that we dont ask him as it's too risky, and we tell BIL why. He can then explain to his wife why this is such a nightmare. DP thinks it's better to have him and just deal with whatever issues she creates nearer the time. What do you think?

*EDIT: other brother isnt in contention for groomsman for other reasons - nothing relevant to this and nothing to do with him personally, but more logistics. He is fine with this.

She sounds awful!!! It’s your and your dp day don’t let her ruin it! Does he want BIL as groomsman?

She sounds insane. It’s pretty obvious that she’s emotionally abusive towards your BIL. She’s isolating him.

You’re right though, no matter what, she’ll kick off. If I were your DP I’d not have either brother be a groomsman and only have his two friends do it. Regarding the bachelor party, your partner can arrange his own. He needs to change his perspective on tradition and arrange his own somewhere in town a couple days before the wedding when they’re all there. Just a night out for drinks and a meal. That’s what it traditionally used to be anyway.

The key factor is that everyone needs to stop moving over for her whenever she moves the goal posts of sanity. This includes your BIL. Just because she kicks off a couple days before an event doesn’t mean he needs to say “I’m not coming anymore”. Support your brother in law in standing up for himself. Start giving him domestic violence and emotional abuse literature to help him understand his position.

YANBU
Your bil made a choice to have children with a vile bully. There are consequences to these choices. Unfortunately he cannot stand up to to his wife. Therefore you have to put boundaries in.

W sounds, frankly, abusive. There are bigger problems there than your wedding and I hope BIL is documenting everything. I hope you are documenting everything you are witness to; you say where he is there are no rights for fathers, but having documentary evidence of her abuse may avoid that.

As to what to do re your wedding, will W actually allow BIL to be part of the wedding? Sounds like she might just put paid to it.

Can BIL be a groomsman BUT ask a friend to be a potential back up. A friend roughly the same size suit! Try not to let her antics get to you. If she plays up get your backup groomsman to step in.

Does your partner want a big bucks?

Your dp should have his DB as groomsman it's probably important to him.
Could you appoint sómeone to jolly dsil along to avoid any drama so your day isn't ruined?
From what you say, she needs humoured all day long. Tedious [yawn]
Congratulations by the way. Hope you enjoy your day

I'd give BIL a special role you've invented, but which isn't actually important to the day.

@Inertia that’s a good idea. He could be chief cow prodder and the one tasked with keeping people moving throughout the day. It’s out of the limelight but still respectable enough to seem worthy in terms of involvement. Both brothers could be in charge of this just in case SIL needs to be wrangled by BIL and he needs to step away for a bit.

The big issue is that there is so much worry over her taking the kids away from BIL and by extension also FIL and MIL that everyone just panders to her and bitched about it afterwards. That's mainly why BIL refuses to get proper help.

I like the idea of a separate role that is made up for him and can be jettisoned at the last min if necessary!

Usher?

My view is that we dont ask him as it's too risky, and we tell BIL why. He can then explain to his wife why this is such a nightmare. DP thinks it's better to have him and just deal with whatever issues she creates nearer the time. What do you think?

I think it is your DP's decision.

It’s your DP’s decision. Plus, a personality like that will create issues whether or not BIL is in the wedding party.

I understand your concerns but I think YABU and you should let your DP decide on his own groomsmen.

This woman sounds absolutely vile and I'm so sorry that your BIL is going through this. It must be so hard to watch. But ultimately he needs to make the decision to leave by himself. You can't do it for him. All you can do is be there for him and support him.

And absolutely do not let this vile cow ruin your day. Ignore her nonsense as much as possible. Maybe you even need a bouncer for the big day

I also think you need to prepare yourself for her to show up in a bridal gown and try to cause a scene at the wedding.

Maybe a quiet word to your family attending the wedding so they are prepared and the celebrations can continue after any stunt she pulls

To be honest what does a groomsman really 'need' to do. You will have 2 others if bil flakes out at the last minute. They can do the duties. Let your OH ask his BIL. Remain detached. Don't involve him in any decisions. Just get him along for suit fitting and ask him to hand out order of service and welcome guests. You make all wedding decisions either just with your OH or with your friends and family. If SIL kicks off close to the time then ignore her. Act detached. If she stops BIL coming it's not your issue. Your OH is a grown up, he can arrange his own stag do.

What do Groomsmen actually do?

If your Dp wants to include him, fine. Order the suit, don’t set up anything that would fail if he drops out / fails to materialise, Dp organises his own Stag do.

He can ask him and then your husband could tell him the concerns about the wife, you do not want your day spoiling - what a cow - those poor kids.

@Mummyoflittledragon
Your bil made a choice to have children with a vile bully. There are consequences to these choices. Unfortunately he cannot stand up to to his wife.

Would you say the same if a woman was being bullied and abused by her husband? Too bad, her choice, should have stood up to him?

OP this is a tricky one. It sounds like W will cause trouble whether BIL is a groomsmen or not to be honest.

BIL probably needs to be included, your DH will want him to be.

But you could be brave, tell them, together, that you really won't put up with her poor behaviour and any demands will be ignored. Be firm, she is welcome as a guest... though that would cause ructions!

Or, you could just steel yourself and start practising some witty remarks.. "there goes our very own Vesuvious" etc, make her behaviour a part of your day, integrate it, celebrate it. It worked for me and SILs partner.. though it did cause ructions our day was amused by her rather than disrupted.

You just have to decide which ructions you and BIL can cope with best!

I agree that it’s your dh2b’s decision. Back him up on whatever he decides and steel yourself for a performance from your dreadful sil.

There’s little point in me dissecting your sil’s horrible behaviour because your bil chooses to (or is manipulated into) staying in a relationship with her. She factors whether any of you like it or not, unfortunately.

If you leave him out of a wedding role he would have naturally undertaken, because of her, the creature has won. There will be further contention and hurt surrounding his family connections and it will feast upon the narcissistic supply and drama as well as orchestrate a wider wedge between her dh and yours.

You have my every sympathy. It’s a tricky one for sure.

It’s your dp’s decision. If your BIL is already depressed, how do you think it’ll make him feel that his own brother didn’t ask him to be groomsman. Give the poor guy a break. You need to support him with this horrible woman, not alienate him further.

If you do that you’d be on your way to being as controlling as your SIL. This should be your DP’s decision not yours.

I agree that sil will create in either instance so as well to go with what you would do if she didn’t factor...seeing as it’s clear she’ll make sure she does whatever.

Argh. Is it possible to contact BIL at work to discuss it with him and see what he thinks?

Explain that you want him as groomsman but in light of everything that's happened in the past it might not work out?

Can you hire security for the wedding and prewan them to keep an eye on her specifically?

How about rather than letting this abusive nutjob continue to behave like this, you all grow a backbone, re-prioritise and support your BIL?? I think this wedding should be the least of your concerns.