To ask DP not to ask BIL to be groomsman?

[MrsBendurdickCuminmysnatch]

Sorry it's long... some facts changed for anonymity.

DP and I are getting married next year. DP wants his 2 best mates and his oldest brother as groomsmen. It’s the brother I am against. His brother is a nice enough man and I have no personal beef with him. However, his wife is a nightmare, and I want to ask him not to ask his brother because of her. For the following explanation and examples, let’s call her W. I’ll refer to DP’s brother as BIL.

W is manipulative. She’s passive aggressive. Shes mean. But mostly, she's controlling and a total drama queen. I am worried that asking BIL to be involved will essentially mean that she will be, by default, involved and will hold everyone to ransom for silly things. E.g:

1. W treats BIL like shit. BIL has had counselling and is depressed. He wont leave her though because in their country fathers have no real rights on a divorce and she has threatened to stop him seeing the kids. Whenever he is involved in anything, she has to know everything about it and be involved too. She checks his phone and gives her 2 cents at all times. BIL actually has a secret phone at work for calling family so she doesn't know.

1. DP and BIL have a brother who is married to a lady called S. W will not talk to S and absolutely hates her. They haven't been in the same room for years because W prevents BIL from seeing the other brother and S. We all have to make sure not to mention S or even the other brother in front of W. There is no good reason for this, though consensus is that she just doesn’t like that BIL and S used to have mutual friends etc. More importantly, when the other brother and S got married, BIL and W were invited and W caused mayhem. She tried to tell everyone that she had no issue with them, but BIL did, so she and the kids should go alone without BIL. Nobody believed this or was having any of it so she was told it was both her and BIL or nobody. They RSVPed saying they would go, but there was no sign of them. Halfway through dinner, they turned up, wanting to make an entrance during one of the speeches – her in a cream dress – but they were duly prevented from entering by half of DP's family. W now considers that she was hard done by and that this was all awful. It's caused so many rows since that I can absolutely see similar issues arising next year.

1. Recently, BIL and W were supposed to visit us. At the last minute, BIL called DP to say W was upset and didnt want to come because DP had excluded them from a private family facebook account. BIL had previously been asked if he wanted to join but declined because S uploads pics of her kids on there. W had insisted that BIL call DP to shout at him about this. After DP told him where to go, 15 mins later BIL called back from his secret phone to apologise and explain that she was forcing him to do this, even though he knew it was all rubbish. DP wasn't having any of it so they did visit but she goaded BIL into mentioning it again later, which caused an almighty row between BIL and DP in a pub.

1. Before BIL and W's wedding, W announced that she didnt like the fascinator MIL had chosen. 2 days later a new fascinator turned up on the doorstep of MIL's house. MIL didn't wear it. Cue more rows.

1. At BIL and W's wedding, W refused to enter the reception until MIL removed her jacket as it was too similar a colour to W's own mother's dress. BIL had to go and get her and calm her down. She wouldn't speak to MIL all day after that.

1. Other 2 groomsmen live overseas so can't organise the stag do. If BIL is asked that will be his role. But BIL isn't generally allowed out, so W will have some sort of control over what is allowed / will cause issues. Usually, when BIL goes out she calls over and over with various issues until he cracks and goes home.

My concern re the wedding is that we can't win. She's a drama queen and everything has to be on her terms.

If we ask BIL to be a groomsman, she will have some issue 2 days before which will hold us all to ransom - we'll have paid for a suit and arranged thinsg around 3 groomsmen and we'll have to appease her to ensure things continue smoothly, no matter what she asks. I imagine it will be something to do with other brother and S, but tbh it could be anything...

If we don;t ask him though, she will bitch that he has been left out - particularly as DP was a groomsman at their wedding.

My view is that we dont ask him as it's too risky, and we tell BIL why. He can then explain to his wife why this is such a nightmare. DP thinks it's better to have him and just deal with whatever issues she creates nearer the time. What do you think?

*EDIT: other brother isnt in contention for groomsman for other reasons - nothing relevant to this and nothing to do with him personally, but more logistics. He is fine with this.

Your DP should have his brother as a groomsman. Your dp wants his brother and it sounds like W is doing everything she can to isolate your dp from his family - that's a reason to make extra allowances to include him, not to exclude him.

What exactly does the role of 'groomsman' entail that you're worried about being messed up? As far as I'm aware groomsman is really a way of honouring the people close to the groomsman. The practicalities of the role are up to you and you dp to determine. You know what W is like so that informs the responsibilities you give BIL Your DP can organise his own stag. If he wants BIL as best man have someone else on standby to give a speech if W prevents him attending at the last minute. Other than that what issues do you think she can cause (especially that she couldn't cause as a guest anyway)?

Tbh with example 3 it sounds like you're all feeding her drama - why did BIL and DP have an almighty row when your DP was already aware that W was using the situation to try and manufacture a problem? Stop reacting and giving her what she wants.

@BeanBag7
I meant it as a statement of fact and realisation of the situation rather than a judgment. If the bil were in a country where he could fight for his kids then no, of course not. I understand how my post came across. I should have added how sad it is that for him and the children.

Unfortunately, however the reality unless op elaborates is that he chose to have children with a woman, who sounds like a sociopath in a country, which would favour her as the parent. Especially as she will likely fight tooth and nail.

Men get few unilateral choices in the wedding. Their clothing and their groomsmen. I'd let him be a big boy and make his own decisions now matter the drama with BIL wife.

No advice, but if I was in your shoes, OP, I'd elope just to avoid the whole shitshow! I really couldn't be arsed having to have my day dominated by thinking about what this crazy woman might do next.

She sounds like a complete nightmare.

Very telling that you refer to mil and bill but dont call her sil. Yes she sounds controlling but tbh so do you. Honestly cant see a problem hes asked, if he turns up then great if not dont let it spoil anything. I'm also struggling to think of any country where a father couldn't see his kids on divorce

There are Eastern European countries where a mother could make a father’s right to see his children very difficult. I personally witnessed this in Ukraine, for example.

So because he is being abused by his wife, and has no means of escape without risking losing contact with his children (which must be such a sad position to be in), he should be excluded from his brothers wedding party?

If shes going to kick off regardless of a role or not then why stop it?

Assign a few people to discretely dispatch of the SIL out of the premises should she start shenanigans.

I agree it's your husband's decision and that groomsmen do nothing really, i'd be fine with him being asked with a "Bil heads up, your wife is a bitch so know that you have nothing to do with the stag or wedding preparations, you just need to show up on the day in the suit and other than that your only groomsman duty is to try stop your wife causing shit"

He’s in an abusive relationship, his family, and that includes you, should be supporting him and not enabling her. Your exclusion of him is nasty.
Yes, I’m one of those who struggles with understanding why women stay in abusive relationships, but they do. BIL needs support to get out.

I wouldn't alienate BIL any further tbh.

She is abusive btw.

It’s hard isn’t it because with the wife’s mentality whatever you do she will make it wrong because she is abusive. As such it’s your wedding so dh and you decide what you feel comfortable with.

Do they live overseas from you? It sounds as if they do. Will they have to travel to the wedding? Does dh and dc have to go back? That is what people would say if it’s a woman- no different because it’s a man.

Get BIL to read a poem or passage from the Bible so that a. He can be dressed in his own suit b. The role can be dropped/ taken over by another person.
Get someone who isn't afraid of W to act as her minder and get them to make it abundantly clear that to her that she is embarrassing herself when she plays up.

Your DP wants it and frankly you would be further isolating him and condoning the abuse if you don’t. And she is likely to be a nightmare either way

And post that says it’s his fault is awful victim blaming

I have a question. Are you invitingly the second brother and S? Because surely W will kick off about that and maybe not attend?
It’s a tough one, because why should W isolate BIL, but who wants the drama?

So, she’s abusing him, but you’re worried that he has to organise the stag do (no he doesn’t) and a no show might mess up your plans for groomsman duties (which are precisely what?)?

I have every sympathy about your worries she’ll truth up and have a go at someone for wearing a jacket.

But honestly, you are making this worse, handing her all the power over some groomsman duty going wrong that I cannot even begin to guess at.

It's not your decision, this is your DPs wedding too.

How would you like it if he told you not to have someone as a bridesmaid?

One benefit of your DP picking his brother as a groomsman means he will have to spend some time with your DP without his wife. Your DP can insist on this when he asks him. At the very least they will have the stag do plus maybe a made up "planning meeting" for the stag do. If you're concerned about the manipulation and abuse he is subject to, this could be a rare opportunity to really talk to him about your concerns and what his options are how you can support him.

If he is rarely allowed out and calls you from a secret phone, your DP can't get that much time with him for a frank conversation about what is going on in his marriage. He should be a groomsman to give your DP this opportunity if nothing else.

Are you in the US? I have absolutely no idea what the groomsmen do... are they like ushers? I should think life is hard enough for bil without being excluded from this event by you because of issues with his wife.( of which he is apparently a victim)

I understand why you’re concerned, OP. She sounds crazy - in the true definition of the word!
However, if she is as bad as you say then she will negatively affect the wedding whether BIL is groomsman or not so I don’t think you can tell your DP to exclude him IMO.

Your BIL is being abused by his wife. Please have him as a groomsman otherwise you’ll make him feel worse. You are his family & by not involving him giving her ammunition to say you don’t care about him. Get someone you trust to babysit her on the day.

No advice but love the OP's username!!!

Leave it up to your DP.

How do you edit posts?

The absolute sod element of my personality would mention S every opportunity i had infront of W and say what a wonderful woman she is and how she is like a Sister. I cant stand people like this who act appaulingly and everyone around them panda to their childish behaviour and demands for fear of them kicking off and having a tantrum.

She sounds like a fucking nightmare and for your sanity and the sake of a reasonably drama free wedding day i would def say dont have bil as groomsman, stick to the 2 friends. Just say - if asked - that you both felt it would be unfair for other brother if only one bro was asked x