To not want my nieces around my baby?

[uptheapplesandpearss]

I love my nieces they're amazing little girls but..

They're extremely rough and clumsy around my baby. They are 6,5 and 3 so I understand they are young, but they are old enough to know right from wrong surely?

They fight around her a lot, causing them to almost fall on her, they've accidentally hurt her on a few occasions for example, put a doll down next to her and it hit her on the head, but they've also pulled her hair (which I'm fairly sure they knew was wrong).

They constantly fight over holding her (whilst holding her) so I've stopped allowing them to hold her now, because they don't listen when they are told to stop, and tried allowing them to sit next to her while an adult is holding her, but they're still very clumsy and not careful around her and lean on her etc which hurts her.

Another thing that I really dislike is, their hygiene isn't very good (as I'm assuming young children's isn't?) for example, they don't wash their hands after going to the toilet and they refuse when I try to make them. They'll then touch dc face, pick her dummy up by the teat and try to put it back in her mouth.

They're only young so I really understand it's mostly not intentional, but constantly having to watch them so closely is really difficult and stressful. I've tried to tackle to problem by asking them to wash their hands, asking them not to fight, telling them to be careful around her and eventually stopping them from holding her. But I'm at my ends wit.

They're my SILs children, and she doesn't stop them from doing what they're doing, DH says they're only children and don't mean harm (which I know they don't, but it still isn't safe for dc and therefore shouldn't just be allowed imo) and every time I intervene their nan will tell me it's okay and to stop being silly, which is why I think they don't listen.

AIBU to think it's unacceptable and to want to distance them from dc while she's so young and they won't listen? Wwyd in my situation?

It's not like this has been my first solution to the problem, I really have tried to make it work, but like I said they don't listen.

Why aren't the parents controlling them? I would be having words with them first.

@Usa666 I honestly don't know! I genuinely think the parents believe they are doing nothing wrong, which makes me question whether I'm in the wrong to think that they are. Nieces parents are always here with them at the same time, so they have heard me multiple times try to correct their behaviour.. they just sit back and do nothing! Or a half hearted "don't do that" which the kids don't listen to, and they don't bother to even try make them listen, just let them continue.

The thing is your SIL has had three DC close together and is completely used to how they are around infants. Your child will be fine. They are just being normal boisterous children. If you go on to have more children you will work this out for yourself. I am not minimising how you feel, we have all been there with our PFB. Maybe ask your SIL to recall how she felt when her first was born and ask her to try and keep her DDs in check a bit more.

Some of the behaviour is normal and some isn't in my opinion.
Rough play with each other without thinking of the consequences to the baby, arguing about who holds the baby, 'helping' by picking up dummies, being clumsy is all normal and all hazards that younger siblings face.

Pulling her hair is wrong even 3 year olds know that. Not washing their hands after going to the toilet is disgusting and unacceptable. As is physically fighting when they are holding the baby.

Whether they mean harm to the baby or not is irrelevant as if the adults dont take action, then there will be harm to your baby. It sounds completely the adults fault which is a real shame that they cant even take the basic steps of telling their children to wash their hands and that they undermine you when you ask them to be careful etc.

If you have tried to speak to your husband and he isn't interested and your SiL won't take any action, I dont see you have got any choice but to distance yourself. And I'm afraid it wont be temporary either, as when your baby is older they will be desperate to copy their big cousins and you will have a hard time getting them to wash their hands etc when big cousins dont and all the adults around say it's fine.

@Apolloanddaphne I can completely appreciate they don't always mean harm but they still do harm which really puts me in a difficult place

I just think if it was my child behaving the same way with a small baby, I would make visits few and far in between and control behaviour whilst there, it upsets me SIL seems to have no regard for the safety of DC.

I'll definitely try asking her to remember how she felt with her first though, hopefully that will change something, thank you!

@AmIRightOrAMeringue I think you may be right.. I just don't know how to go about distancing myself and dc and I really don't want it to cause offence or a rift, because I get on well with SIL and her husband and like I said I love my nieces. It's just not safe for dc though.

Any suggestions on how to go about the distancing myself and dc conversation with SIL?

If your SIL and husband don't correct their DC's behaviour around your baby then I don't at all blame you for wanting to keep them away.

Probably your SIL thinks you're being a bit precious, since she's had 3 and lived to tell the tale, but I expect she would have been the exact same with her first at least!

Distance yourself until your baby is bigger and less vulnerable, and less like a doll for them to play with. Just be unavailable when they want to visit, or want you to visit. Babies get a lot of sniffles and things, she could have one of those, or be out of sorts, or have a temp, or maybe diarrhoea, or just be offcolour - all sorts of reasons why a visit just isn't convenient.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad my problem is DH doesn't agree with me and would know nothing was wrong with DC so we would probably end up seeing them anyway!

OP, when your PFB is a toddler and you have a second baby to contend with, I think you'll see that your nieces' behaviour is just what small children do.

I wouldn't say anything to your SIL. At some point, her oldest child was a baby. And probably she felt the same way about older DC.

I would bring up the subject of not washing their hands after going to the toilet though. That is very basic hygiene.

Other kinds of exposure to germs builds a baby's immune system though. You can't expect a sterile environment around your child.

I think I would try and get your husband on board first and agree some basic rules eg wash hands before holding the baby and sit nicely one at a time when they are holding them, and no physical fighting or throwing toys. Hand washing, not fighting or throwing etc will all be things they are familiar with and that are enforced at school and nursery.

Once you have two adults on board then that will help reinforce the rules (it's harder for the children to ignore when it's not just one person saying them)

I'd sell it to your husband that it's a case if trying to maintain your relationship with SiL and nieces as otherwise you might snap especially if your baby gets hurt or you will start avoiding them and that will damage the relationship.a

Can you try divide and conquer so invite your SiL family over separately to MiL? In your own house they are guests and should be easier to enforce the rules without it seeming you disagree with their parenting. I think if you explain them to the kids (in this house we....) and give praise for following them and consequences for not following them (if they are throwing a toy and it might hit the baby just say I am worried that the baby might be hurt with that toy, do you think we should put it away or would you like to play with it outside, so they are not getting punished but the game stops). Praise them whenever they are gentle. Say they can hold the baby if their hands are nice and clean, let them have turns and set a timer so it's 'fair', give extra 'turns' or extra time when they have sat nicely with her, prise the others for being nice and patient. When the baby is a bit older you can get them to 'help' by 'showing the baby' how to do things and 'teach her things', they will be proud if they have helped teach the baby to play nicely with something. All this though is fairly non confrontational and is basically parenting the other girls if your in laws wont.

Otherwise you can suggest more visits out at parks etc or places where it's easier to keep your baby out of harm's way.

@Jemima232 no I can completely appreciate some of it is normal behaviour, I just think some things such as pulling dc hair, not washing hands after using the toilet and fighting while they are holding her is really wrong and should be dealt with however I've tried to no avail and SIL doesn't seem to care..

I doubt I would say anything really as SIL is there when I've tried to correct their behaviour but does nothing about it herself so it's clearly not something speaking to her about will change anyway..

I am really anxious about safety but after having a second child I am well aware of why the second child is far tougher than the first YANBU to be uncomfortable about it and you need to speak up even if it makes you uncomfortable. Speak up when it happens and don't be afraid to set ground rules or tell the older children off if their parents are not when it means your baby might get hurt.

Also a play pen might save your sanity, it's a safe place to put baby in when you can't be totally watching but you have other, older littlies over.

yanbu imo. when I had my first baby I would have been exactly the same as you. I'm a little more relaxed now (I have 3dc now) but I still wouldn't tolerate any of the behaviour you describe around a small baby of mine or let my children do that around a small baby. yes young children can be a bit clumsy and haphazard but that's why you watch you watch them closely and intervene when necessary. the parents should be taking their cues from you as to what you think is acceptable. not imposing their (lower) standards of behaviour towards your dc on you.

how old is your baby? it sounds like you're still early days? it won't be long until they're older and more robust so it won't be as much of a problem. In the meantime, I'd avoid them if possible and when you can't just hold your baby or have them in a sling or something to keep them out of reach.

P.S kids not washing their hands is totally normal (adults should be checking that it is done though), they are busy little people who don't want to stop and 'waste time' washing hands.

My girls are exactly the same age. No way any of that would be allowed around a small baby. I don't think you are being precious at all.

@AmIRightOrAMeringue I think that's really good advice, thank you!

I have tried a few things you have suggested, it's just when SIL hears they are asked to wash their hands before holding baby etc, she takes massive offence.

Unfortunately and for reasons I can't comprehend, a lot of people in SILs life do not like her DC, and she assumes that when I ask them to wash their hands, or to play nicely etc that I am one of those people too. I'm not, I'm just worried about DD.

It's a very difficult situation for me, lol.

I have 3 kids a 7.5 year old, nearly 3 year old and 6 week old. The not washing there hands after the toilet is not due up age but parents failing to teach them and check they have done it (both my older kids do wash there hands after the toilet as I check and enforce it).

They are being rough around her and with her as it’s been allowed. There behaviour is unacceptable and is putting your child at risk so I would pull them back. If the parents don’t parent them and ensure they behave you don’t have much choice as your child is your priority. Yes kids are kids and will play up but will soon learn it’s not acceptable if they are taught that. My 7.5 year old who has ASD and ADHD knows he has to be careful around the baby and both kids know I will not tolerate them putting our baby at risk.

If they havnt washed their hands then hold the baby yourself and tell them they cant hold her until they have washed their hands. If your that worried just hold the baby yourself when they visit

Completely agree with @AmIRightOrAMeringue - my 2 year old knows that washing hands after using toilet is absolutely non-negotiable and she isn't leaving the bathroom without doing so. She also knows intentionally pulling hair is not acceptable. Other issues, however, I do have when her and her friends are around her or their siblings as they get overexcited and carried away.

In cases of things like poor hygiene, can you say to them (loudly so their mum can hear) that they are not allowed to play with or hold her if they choose not to clean their hands as baby can get ill and then just take your baby away. Likewise with hair pulling, take baby away and tell child that they can no longer play with her as they are hurting their cousin. Their mum should be dealing with this kind of behaviour but if she chooses to ignore it, don't let the girls play with baby - if they then complain to their mum, you can tell her you're not happy with dirty hands etc

I have tried a few things you have suggested, it's just when SIL hears they are asked to wash their hands before holding baby etc, she takes massive offence.

Children approach. You: oops, I don't think you washed your hands! Be over the top smiley and jokey about it. I agree the hair pulling is totally off, kids that age are a bit too argey bargey to be around babies and do get all over the place but the hair pulling is terrible. Juts be on the ground with them OP, that's what I always did, so baby just within the space that I could grab them up if any of the kids got too in his face. Best of luck!

Yanbu I have a five month old and this would cause me untold anxiety.

If it was me with a baby and very young children I'd be keeping my dc in my arms/away from the playing area for the entire visit. Any holding would be closely supervised.

Very young children cant be expected to be mindful of a baby all the time.

my problem is DH doesn't agree with me and would know nothing was wrong with DC

If your DH (and seemingly your SIL) don't see a problem, and the harm to your DC is apparent only to you, are you sure not not being a bit PFB?

How small is your baby? Are we talking weeks or months? Is she supporting her own head yet or rolling/ crawling etc?

I would definitely not be letting small children be spending much time around a newborn/ very young baby without close support from an adult. I can understand why you’re feeling anxious if your baby is only a few months old.

If baby is old enough to sit/ crawl and is putting things to their mouth then I would relax a bit as by that time the baby is picking up plenty of germs from the floor and is going to be getting into knocks and scrapes themselves. Babies are quite robust and so I wouldn’t worry hugely if the children are supervised and trying to be gentle but doing things like picking up a dummy or accidentally knocking lightly with toys, although obviously I wouldn’t stand for hair pulling or intentionally rough behaviour.

Thank you everyone for your replies.

SIL is very protective over her DC so that is another issue I have when try to enforce washing hands, not fighting around baby and pulling hair etc.

Some people in SILs life don't like her DC and there have been incidents where other family members have called her DC "germy" or refused to let their DC play with/meet hers.

Because of this, SIL takes serious offence when I ask DNs to wash their hands etc as she thinks I'm of the same opinion as the others in her life. She becomes quite catty over it and makes comments such as we just won't come anymore or once when it was mentioned in a family group chat on WhatsApp, she left the chat and refused to talk about it.

So I'm kind of at a loss with it.