To not want my nieces around my baby?

[uptheapplesandpearss]

I love my nieces they're amazing little girls but..

They're extremely rough and clumsy around my baby. They are 6,5 and 3 so I understand they are young, but they are old enough to know right from wrong surely?

They fight around her a lot, causing them to almost fall on her, they've accidentally hurt her on a few occasions for example, put a doll down next to her and it hit her on the head, but they've also pulled her hair (which I'm fairly sure they knew was wrong).

They constantly fight over holding her (whilst holding her) so I've stopped allowing them to hold her now, because they don't listen when they are told to stop, and tried allowing them to sit next to her while an adult is holding her, but they're still very clumsy and not careful around her and lean on her etc which hurts her.

Another thing that I really dislike is, their hygiene isn't very good (as I'm assuming young children's isn't?) for example, they don't wash their hands after going to the toilet and they refuse when I try to make them. They'll then touch dc face, pick her dummy up by the teat and try to put it back in her mouth.

They're only young so I really understand it's mostly not intentional, but constantly having to watch them so closely is really difficult and stressful. I've tried to tackle to problem by asking them to wash their hands, asking them not to fight, telling them to be careful around her and eventually stopping them from holding her. But I'm at my ends wit.

They're my SILs children, and she doesn't stop them from doing what they're doing, DH says they're only children and don't mean harm (which I know they don't, but it still isn't safe for dc and therefore shouldn't just be allowed imo) and every time I intervene their nan will tell me it's okay and to stop being silly, which is why I think they don't listen.

AIBU to think it's unacceptable and to want to distance them from dc while she's so young and they won't listen? Wwyd in my situation?

It's not like this has been my first solution to the problem, I really have tried to make it work, but like I said they don't listen.

You need to establish "My House, My Rules"

In my house we flush the toilet and then wash our hands
In my house we don't hold the baby if we're fighting
In my house we don't pull baby's hair
In my house we give the dummy to me when it's been on the floor
In my house....

And repeat.

@MyNewBearTotoro baby has just gone 3 months old so still quite young for that kind of thing in my opinion haha

Just reading your post makes me itch. It is so awkward to discipline others people's kids and also so horrible to feel uncomfortable in their company esp if you feel your child will be hurt.
Most of it (although not v nice) is natural and normal. Not washing hands after the toilet is unacceptable and not ok.
I four kids when they were smaller if bigger cousins hurt or crossed a line I would scoop mine up and say loudly: Sorry "Harry" is my baby and I allow.... name of the offence.
It helped a bit. I am sure everyone thought I was being precious. Oh well. I thought they were being gross and aggressive.
Good luck

Why is your mil undermining you by saying it doesn’t matter? It obviously does, because you’ve said it. I’d be hauling her up on that one and very simply not allowing your db anywhere near the baby.

I love how you say some people don’t like your dn and your sil doesn’t know why. It’s obviously because your poor dn are feral and haven’t been taught manners/bog standard hygiene.

If your DH (and seemingly your SIL) don't see a problem, and the harm to your DC is apparent only to you, are you sure not not being a bit PFB?

Or maybe they are too lazy to bother with it all or just could not give a shit. Surely it is never acceptable to be rough with a baby? Why can't they wash their hands???

Your SIL is an arse. If she hasn't woken up to the fact that people not wanting her dirty children around is because they're fecking dirty, then she bloody well should!!

If one person has a problem with it, they might be being precious. If many people have a problem with it, chances are it's a problem and she should be dealing with it, not refusing to by getting all offended and catty about it.

I'm quite angry now on your behalf because your DD is now being put into a vulnerable position because of her refusal to housetrain her children properly!

You do need to get your DH on board to understand the possible risks to your baby - she's still very tiny and although her immune system is developing fast, she could still do without being touched by pissed-on hands and having her hair tugged!

So I would intervene Every Single Fucking Time they did anything - take the baby off them, regardless of any offence and filthy looks from SIL - and say that they're not allowed to play with her if they're not going to clean their hands first or hurt her.

Does she cry when they hurt her?

When my DS1 was born, he had 3 cousins who were all under 5 - they weren't allowed to carry him around because I was scared they might drop him (much like they dropped everything else) but I would let them hold him while sitting down. No fighting over him, no using him as a toy doll and their mother made sure they were clean-handed and didn't hurt him! So hard when you have such a die-hard attitude from your SIL that doesn't fit with your baby's actual needs.

Tell your DH you will pull her up on it every single time and if she gets offended then tough shit, it's better than your baby being hurt. If he can't handle that, then he'd better step in and get his sister to fucking pull her finger out and parent her own children.

OP my DSis has three kids of similar ages I’m very close to. My DD is 8 months and I was also very shocked at how roughly they played and how big they seemed all of a sudden. My DNephew in particular. Luckily my DSis understood I was being a bit PFB and so we had one round at a time to play with her which was lovely as they stopped the silly competing. DD absolutely adores them all, any kids in fact.

They sound badly brought up.
My dd was almost 3 when ds was born and she was very aware of him, and was safe to hold him from the day he was born.
I’m sure they mean no harm, but sounds like they don’t know what no means.

@Deathraystare I don't think I am being PFB, I genuinely think I'd react the same way if this was my 50th child lol

You are definitely in a very difficult position here. I initially thought we had a PFB situation on your hands but once I read your full post I can 100% understand why you are finding their visits stressful. I have 3 children who can be a handful and don't listen but even they would know not to be rough around a baby and I would take them straight home if they pulled hair/fought etc. Your husband needs to be on board here, limit the visits and insist on hand washing. Could they come one at a time with one parent? Or even without their parents, they might behave better? I doubt any good would ever come of spelling it out though. Good luck!

Buy some fun hand wash. Tell the dc it's especially for them. What worked for me was telling dc the baby won't like them if they hurt him - 2 dds wanted the baby to be their best friend and def didn't want him to not love them!
Alternatively just scoop your baby away from them every time.
Behave or buggar off home is another suggestion to say - to sil.
She is a guest and your baby isn't a toy.

Luckily my DSis understood I was being a bit PFB
You weren't being pfb, you were stopping your baby from getting hurt!! Nothing precious about it!!

The only thing which worked for mine with hand washing after the toilet and he was told over and over and over again was making it into a game. Habits need reinforcing at home and if your SiL won't, then that's going to make it harder for the girls.

There is a good episode of Cbeebies Get Well Soon which shows how germs transfer in an age appropriate way, might be worth seeing if you can find it on the i-player to show them. It definitely helped get the message through my very busy hates to waste a minute ds.

Ultimately though, your baby, your rules. I've taken both mine off their cousins when they refused to play "nice" and cuddle time went through a period of being timed for fairness as the eldest cousin really struggled without that.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad DD does cry when they hurt her

I don't know, I really feel awful for feeling this way about them but I need to put DD first.

I think I will have a hard time getting DH on board, as he doesn't want to join the group of people who dislike (not dislike, but I can't think of a better word) DNs.

I think I'm in this one on my own. SIL really refuses to believe any bad anyone has to say about her DC

@mcmooberry we have tried one at a time, doesn't work. We had the eldest stay over and she just refused to listen, acted exactly the same as she does with her sisters and when we asked her not to do something would scream at us to go away and then sit in the corner of the room away from us.

Jesus, they (your DH and SIL) do really need to pull their heads out of their arses and understand that people, including you, do NOT "dislike" the actual children, they dislike their dirtiness and lack of behaviour control! No one appreciates having dirty feral children without boundaries around tiny babies, it's not unusual (as is evident by most other people's reaction to them!)

This is all about their behaviour (poor) and hygiene (worse) and SIL's lack of teaching them better. They're probably lovely kids but the situation won't improve until she sorts herself and her Attitude out and trains them how to behave properly!

I'm amazed your DH is being so wet and would rather support his sister in her delusions than take care of his own child.

YANBU.

Their behaviour isn't normal where a new baby is concerned.

My DC were so gentle and caring with their baby cousins.

It's down to poor parenting.

They are children and it's normal behaviour to be excited by a baby. Maybe you SIL isn't happy with you being on her children's case all the time. Maybe it would be better to not see them for everyone's sake

As your baby is so small, why not have her in a sling when you visit so that the DNs cannot pick her up, knock in to her or pull her hair?

SIL sounds pretty rubbish tbh. Washing hands after going to the loo is basic hygiene and they shouldn’t be touching the baby without doing so. Just keep repeating that they have to have clean hands before going near your baby and if they can’t be careful then they’ll have to play in another room. Keep at it. If SIL takes offence then so be it.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad I couldn't have said it any better myself! It's definitely not the girls I dislike, just their behaviour and hygiene (well lack of).

I'm thinking DH refusal to get on board is because of how SIL will react if he does. (He was the one who mentioned something about her DC in the group chat which caused her to leave)

Yeah, I can see that - but he's got to understand that your (and his!!) baby's well being is really far more important than his sister's offence button! If it gets pushed because you're looking out for your baby's wellbeing, then she's even more of an arse.

I suspect your MIL has a hand in this somewhere as well - did she have a go at your DH for upsetting his sister? Is the sister normally one who everyone has to appease for general peace and quiet?

Ha, just gone back and re-read your Op to check - I see nan (MIL) intervenes whenever you try to tell the nieces differently, so she's obviously no help and more of a hindrance by undermining you. I wouldn't have her round at the same time if she's being down on you for trying to protect your baby.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad is spot on.

I can't imagine that dozens of people are wrong about your dns. if your sil doesn't like it she needs to do something about it. its not nice but when children are a bit grubby and boisterous its down to lazy parenting - imho

DH says they're only children and don't mean harm The 5 and 6 year old (and probably the little one too) definitely mean harm when they are pulling your babies hair fgs! Unless you are massively exaggerating, I can't believe that no one in your family is attempting to put a stop to your nieces bratty behaviour. I would be furious with their nan for making excuses for them too. Does she not think your DC is as important as your nieces or something? Protect your child and tell your SIL to stay away until she bothers to teach her kids basic manners and hygiene!