To not want my nieces around my baby?

[uptheapplesandpearss]

I love my nieces they're amazing little girls but..

They're extremely rough and clumsy around my baby. They are 6,5 and 3 so I understand they are young, but they are old enough to know right from wrong surely?

They fight around her a lot, causing them to almost fall on her, they've accidentally hurt her on a few occasions for example, put a doll down next to her and it hit her on the head, but they've also pulled her hair (which I'm fairly sure they knew was wrong).

They constantly fight over holding her (whilst holding her) so I've stopped allowing them to hold her now, because they don't listen when they are told to stop, and tried allowing them to sit next to her while an adult is holding her, but they're still very clumsy and not careful around her and lean on her etc which hurts her.

Another thing that I really dislike is, their hygiene isn't very good (as I'm assuming young children's isn't?) for example, they don't wash their hands after going to the toilet and they refuse when I try to make them. They'll then touch dc face, pick her dummy up by the teat and try to put it back in her mouth.

They're only young so I really understand it's mostly not intentional, but constantly having to watch them so closely is really difficult and stressful. I've tried to tackle to problem by asking them to wash their hands, asking them not to fight, telling them to be careful around her and eventually stopping them from holding her. But I'm at my ends wit.

They're my SILs children, and she doesn't stop them from doing what they're doing, DH says they're only children and don't mean harm (which I know they don't, but it still isn't safe for dc and therefore shouldn't just be allowed imo) and every time I intervene their nan will tell me it's okay and to stop being silly, which is why I think they don't listen.

AIBU to think it's unacceptable and to want to distance them from dc while she's so young and they won't listen? Wwyd in my situation?

It's not like this has been my first solution to the problem, I really have tried to make it work, but like I said they don't listen.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad yes MIL is the same as SIL I'm afraid, takes offence when I try put DNs behaviour right.

Once before SIL apologised for DNs behaviour and MIL said "you have nothing to apologise for, they're amazing little girls"

@Aprillygirl definitely not over exaggerating, I really wish I was! In some ways I do think MIL favours DNs, so I suppose that could be the case.

Your baby comes first every time. I wouldn’t care what others thought. Protect your baby, either by not spending time there, or arranging to see them for a walk or out at cafe, or by telling the kids not to do it (most difficult option).

Honestly in protecting our kids we don’t have to consider anyone else’s feelings. Something I’ve learnt.

OP I totally get where you are coming from. It is not alright to fight over a baby and it is not alright to pull a baby's hair. It is not alright to not wash your hands after going to the toilet and then go anywhere near a dummy. You are absolutely right to be concerned by this.

You are worrying too much about sil and her taking offence and her feelings regarding other people.

Her children are hurting your baby. It's no ok and the only person you need to think about is your baby. That's it.

You can explain to sil if necessary. But you must stop it.

Quite gobsmacked at that, uptheapples.
She actually stopped your SIL from apologising for her children's bad behaviour by saying there was nothing wrong with it?
Well she'd be out the door as well then. No unsupervised contact with your baby for her until she's big enough to fight back.

Bloody hell, I do feel so sorry for you!

For example, a relation has a very yappy dog and I instinctively never let my young toddlers near it and basically take the kids to another room or go out when they turn up. Relation doesn’t like it and says he wouldn’t hurt a fly etc and gets moody with me.

I don’t care, my kids safety comes first.

It’s meant that relation has fallen out with me. I still don’t care, I’ve been polite but firm in my actions. Just said ‘sorry I really don’t think your dog and my kids mix’.

We have a family dog so I’m not being totally reactionary!

Anyway, last year relations dog bit her grandchild and nearly caused a serious injury. Dog had to be put down.

Makes me realize, always, always trust your instincts, and protect your kids number one.

Is this every single time or just sometimes they behave like this?

When they pull hair, you are entitled to say something and should do so! Were they actually yanking it or just having a feel for example? If baby reacted by crying then you should tell the kids off!

But it’s hard to tell to be honest from your posts. With my first dc I was super primed for the behaviour of other children around my baby and may have been less tolerant.

@thecatinthetwat I'm not worried about her feelings, I've tried to manage her children's behaviour in front of her so I know she knows how I feel about it, and DH has expressed our concerns to her once before

I just know and have explained in the thread how she feels about her children/what others think of them and am aware that's why she doesn't listen or act upon their behaviour unfortunately

@Iggly every. single. time. I have and do tell them that the way they're behaving is wrong and that it needs to change and have tried to encourage this but it doesn't work.

They actually yanked her hair, full on pulled it. I did tell them off, but as usual it's not dealt with by their parents and is excused by MIL so I don't think the chances of them ever listening to me are high

Tell DH the jury's back on whether or not everyone should wash their hands after having a shit then putting their hands all over babies, did he miss that news?
His mother is probably giving him an ear full about all this behind your back so I'd do the same, and start snapping back at MIL/SIL every time they allow anything to be done to your DC that you have boundaries around. If keeping the peace means your DC has to be put in harms way them f*ck the peace. Your way or the highway when it comes to your baby's safety & well-being.
This just gets worse as time goes by (been there, done that, got the boxing gloves} & if your DH tells you he's taking the baby to that situation anyway just tell him "over my dead body" & mean it.

You can't really win this OP so I'd stop allowing your child to be the fall guy for your SIL's lazy parenting. Other parents have the measure of her and her children, and have distanced themselves to avoid the bad behaviour and no doubt their children getting hurt.

This is likely to go on indefinitely so you might as well stick your flag in the sand now, otherwise you'll have rough upper primary school age kids unable to temper their play around a pre-schooler and guess who will come off worse?

I think it's up to you,but mainly the other parents who should be trying to install some better behaviour into these children,and surely this should be possible. I know that children can get a bit wild around a small baby, as if the baby is a play thing,but they have to be told,maybe repeatedly, to calm down,and do as they are told,so as not to hurt your baby in any way.

I know it's difficult to say how you feel,when it's family, and they have their own non rules, but it will be best all round if you can make a difference.

Ok then op, they don't come round or they don't go near the baby. If you do tell them and it doesn't work then that's that.

I doubt there is much else you can do than say you don't want them around the baby. It's obvious why and you've made it clear and they don't give a shit. What more can you do? Tell them to piss off frankly.

I think this is probably fairly normal behaviour between 3 little girls close in age, all jostling for position with a real life baby to hold ,cuddle etc .No doubt the fighting starts when one DN decides other DN has had a longer "turn "with DC!.That said I think YANBU at all !.No new Mum wants her child used like a plaything.Could you all go out for a walk to the park first and tire them out a little?.As far as not washing their hands ,Surely they should learn this at School or Nursery .I was a Nursery Nurse and we would be washing hands before all meals /snacks /when coming in from playing outside etc.Just say to them Ooh can you wash your hands and as we did at nursery sing "happy Birthday to me " twice over .make it into a little game for them .This will ensure clean hands for all!

To be honest when you encounter the kind of parent that is really defensive and won't respect someone else's house rules because only they are allowed to discipline their child, then they can't really expect people not to avoid them in my opinion. Their mothers attitude is rude and leaves you no choice - everyone is allowed rules in their own home. If my child was doing something that hurt someone else's and they tried to tell them to stop (obviously unless they were shouting/issuing excessive punishments) then I would back them up and stop the behaviour.

A lot of people wheel out the "you'll be used to it when you have two" argument but the fact is, in the nicest way possible, someone else having lower standards for their child out of faith that they will survive and necessity does not mean you are obliged to have lower standards for yours. If you want to avoid as many germs and lumps and bumps as you can then you are allowed to, other people's experience of having more than one child don't change that.

In all honesty I feel similarly when I visit my daughters cousins and I spend most of the time holding her and visits aren't long. It's the hazard of having boisterous children and not insisting on basic hygiene for them.

The whole hygiene thing can be really awkward to navigate because some people just don't see a problem with things other people do. Like people that think it's absolutely fine to smoke before holding a baby, it just won't occur to them that others don't like it. My partner's family and my partner himself will often do things like clean off a dirty dummy by putting it in their own mouth, even if they are ill, and then put it straight back into my babies mouth, and it makes me cringe every time. I'm not a germaphobe and I'm well aware she'll live if she gets ill, that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather avoid a week of distressed crying and no sleep if I can, it's annoying when people don't respect that.

I would not allow a child to touch my baby if they were refusing (not just forgetting) to wash their hands after going to the toilet, and I do think it's rude of a parent not to pick them up on that. It's bad manners to reuse to wash your hands after going to the toilet in any scenario.

@Aprillygirl definitely not over exaggerating, I really wish I was! In some ways I do think MIL favours DNs, so I suppose that could be the case.

In that case ignore the people telling you you are being an overprotective first time mum-I have 5 kids all close in age and I wouldn't have put up with that shit around any of my lot, PLUS mine were all taught to be careful around their smaller siblings-and stop worrying about your SIL's feelings (it's her fault people don't like her kids, not yours) and the next time one of your nieces hurt your baby tell her enough's enough and not to bring them round again, at least until your baby is much bigger.

@AE18 your second to last paragraph - I couldn't relate more to! It's my feelings down to a T and it's so nice to know someone else feels the same way!

At the end of the day you have to protect your baby. You have to speak up and get them to stop fighting near your dc and make sure your DN wash their hands. If SIL and MIL are defensive or don’t like it, it’s tough. They will have to lump it.

There’s something very wrong with an adult that thinks it’s ok for two children to be playing rough near a very young baby without telling them to stop and be careful!

As a mother your job is to protect your baby. Young children have been known to kill small babies when they were trying to be helpful and 'not meaning any harm' as your husband puts it.

When your baby gets a bit older, do you want her around girls with bad habits and don't listen? I kept my baby /toddler away from my niece and nephew due to the fact they liked to play very rough and wouldn't listen. They were brats. Now they are adult brats.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. DS was nearly 6 when DD was born, he wasn’t allowed to carry her, in the very early days he was only allowed to cuddle her under supervision, and DP or I would place/remove DD from his lap.

Your Mil is out of order . She’s dismissing your concerns and undermining you. Is Sil golden child by any chance? Is DH likely to get aggro from both Mil & Sil if he objects to the way his DNs behave?

Make it clear to both Mil & Sil that you expect the nieces to have clean hands when handling your baby and the are not to fight over her. If either Sil or Mil have a problem with that then show them the door. Not only is it about keeping you baby safe it’s about you being respected as a parent.

@Deelish75 Is Sil golden child by any chance? Is DH likely to get aggro from both Mil & Sil if he objects to the way his DNs behave?

Yes yes and yes! Earlier in the thread I explained once when DH brought our concerns to SILs attention she threw a hissy fit and left the family group chat on WhatsApp!

Whenever DH and SIL disagree on something and SIL gets upset, you can bet your life MiL will text DH demanding he apologises to his sister, it's ridiculous! I think that's why DH is reluctant to agree with me.

If he ever asks his sister or mom to do something regarding DD per OUR request (something we will have agreed on in private) he will start the sentence with "uptheapplesandpearss wants you to.." rather than "we want you to.." because he is scared of their reaction (I think)

If he ever asks his sister or mom to do something regarding DD per OUR request (something we will have agreed on in private) he will start the sentence with "uptheapplesandpearss wants you to.." rather than "we want you to.." because he is scared of their reaction (I think)

You have a DH problem as well as an IL problem. You need to put a stop to the uptheapplesandpears says nonsense. Tell him you aren't going to stand for it and what you really want is for him to back you up and present a united front. If he says it in front of you then I'd be very tempted to correct him and say, "WE want..."
You and baby are his family now and he should be siding with you.

I've had more than one DC and yes I was very PFB with the first and less so with the second. I know little kids can be unintentionally rough and careless. But that doesn't mean I would let my kids be rough, fight and touch a baby with dirty hands! I would always reinforce that when you hold a baby, you are calm, gentle and quiet and wash your hands first. It's not just about the possibility of harming the baby (though that totally DOES matter of course!) but also about respecting the feelings of the mum, and the baby's right to having its own space and body respected. That's a lesson all kids should learn, that other people have feelings too and a baby is a person, not a toy.

It is very hard and keeping your distance is understandable. But you can also be around them with the baby, but only let them hold/play with the baby on your terms and for a limited time. Make a big deal of you can hold the baby when you've washed your hands, one at a time for x amount of time as long as you are gentle. The second they're not adhering to that, take the baby back, calmly: "OK baby's not enjoying that, come to mummy darling" and remove. Only if they are behaving to they get access. They will not want to be the one who didn't get a chance because they couldn't behave, while the other one did.

In a way it's easier because this isn't disciplining someone else's kids, it's simply setting out your stall for what your baby needs, IYSWIM. If SIL or anyone else makes a fuss, just say "I am a new mum, I do want to protect my baby, these are my conditions which aren't unreasonable" and stare them in the face.

It’s not the children’s fault, it’s the parents for letting them do it. My kids are a bit wild at times but I certainly teach them right from wrong and your nieces parent should really be teaching them how to act around your baby and definitely encouraging hand washing.