I've been told I dress too smartly at work...

[Appletina]

and I've been told I need to dress more casually.

I tend to wear smart day dresses, or skirts with a top or blouse, from places like Hobbs, Reiss, Jaeger. I don't wear jackets or blazers or full on suits. I wear low heels.

I work with the public and apparently my dress sense could be perceived as intimidating and so I am to dress more casually... I think that's a ridiculous and patronising thing to say about the great British public!

AIBU to continue to keep dressing as I am?

”Have you read all of the posts explicitly stating that a manager cannot compel an employee to dress more casually just because they feel like it?”

Just because someone has “explicitly stated” something doesn’t make it true. You’re very trusting!

I will “explicitly state” that unless a dress code is discriminatory, an employer can absolutely tell someone how to dress. Up to you if you believe me or not, but I would caution you not to assume anyone saying an employer “can’t” do something actually knows what on earth they are talking about...

Go on, @QualCheckBot. Open goal!

Iamthewombat- I don't know why I'm writng this as you will disagree with me, I'm sure, (and i do actually have work to do) but here goes...
My clients, in general, wear jeans.
I, in general, wear casual dresses or skirts or jeans.
We look similarly dressed.
If my imaginary employee came to meetings in a business suit and tie, or a power dress, jacket and heels, that would seem out of place when compared to me and my client even though some people in my industry would wear this.
I would prefer my imaginary employee to wear casual dress to fit in, otherwise my 'corporate image' , which I have considered, would completely change- in my opinion for the worse.

You're focusing on health and safety here in order to deliberately avoid acknowledging that companies and organisations have different cultures and expectations for dress and different clients.

If a member of staff in a cafe decided they don't think jeans are respectful enough to customers and decided to wear anything else that not breaking health and safety but still doesn't fit the dress code, the employee is in the wrong here. It is neither here nor there what they think is right or respectful and their opinion on jeans is irrelevant.

But somebody arriving at work in an outfit worn by millions of women working in offices around the world, which most people would recognise as appropriate, neat business attire? How is that damaging your brand?
Because wearing smart business dress isn't for every setting and organisation.
It's really really not that difficult to understand.
It's why for example I wouldn't go to school dressed in the immaculate smart attire that the sales assistants at our local Audi/BMW garage wear.
It's why children's and families workers don't stress the same as secondary school teachers.
It's why some tech companies have more casual dress codes. Why friends I know working in fashion tend to dress in a more creative artistic way that would be out of place in my job.
Context matters but you're insisting it doesn't as if every company and organisation is some kind of carbon copy of any other organisations where all clients and customers and service users all think exactly the same thing.

When I have worked with more vulnerable young people I wore more casual attire because many of the teens had issues with authority, bad experiences, their parents had poor experiences and were wary of the system. Of course, I could say "who'd get offended by a cardigan and its standard for women to wear this type of workwear" but then that would be silly because it would have ignored the nuances of organisational context (and also shows lack of judgement on my part). I wouldn't wear the same attire in my current school.

Behave yourselves like good little girls. Do as you are told. Dress the way your boss tells you to dress, even if what you were wearing was entirely reasonable and appropriate and you have no wish to dress like a hipster or a nursery teacher liable to become covered in paint. Conform. Keep your head down.

What evidence is there that male employees wouldn't also be told to dress less formally?

Behave yourselves like good little girls. Do as you are told. Dress the way your boss tells you to dress, even if what you were wearing was entirely reasonable and appropriate and you have no wish to dress like a hipster or a nursery teacher liable to become covered in paint. Conform. Keep your head down.
It's nothing about good little girls. That's trying to turn it into a sex issue and it isn't.

It's about grown adults having the sense to understand that their desire to dress how they like isn't paramount in an organisation with its own dress codes, expectations, social norms.

That's the same for men being expected to be in a suit and I've known men be pulled up for not looking smart enough for not wearing a tie/more jeans chinos than smart trousers, or a man being told to probably ditch the suit with the next client as it's a casual tech start up.

I've been in loads of places with dress codes from formal to really casual (but not sportswear). Not once have I had an issue expressing myself or looking like me. I often wonder if people who think adapting to a dress code and organisation is some evil conformity aiming to suppress people and keep their heads down lack the creativity and individuality to shine as a person separate to clinging to whichever item of clothing they're whining about altering (both directions of smartness there).

You cannot be sacked for something like this. It has to a be a reasonable reason for dismissal in this case relating to your competency to do the job

That depends (a) on whether OP has been employed for two years and, if not, (b) on whether similar informal dress rules apply for men.

Actually, when pitching for new clients, I tend towards smart casual rather than casual- as I hope to fit in better with whatever dress code the client has- possibly a step down, the same, or a step up in terms of formality but not veering off too far from any possibility.
I acknowledge that the type of clothing I wear matters.
Once I've sussed out their dress code (as I've said, overwhelmingly casual), I then mirror them.
It seems to make sense

” if somebody is wearing the standard, accepted, appropriate business attire for their profession you can’t instruct them to go out and buy jeans, or cheap dresses from H&M, or hipster outfits or gold hot pants and a sequinned bra, to wear to work.”

I’m sorry, I’ve obviously missed an invisible post from the OP where she hasn’t just been asked to dress more casually, she has been told to buy hot pants and a sequinned bra...

If you resort to ridiculous exaggeration to make your point, you need to just stop and consider whether the point you are making is quite as robust as you think it is.

I’m still eagerly awaiting someone to educate me on the legal basis for saying an employer can’t impose a (non discriminatory) dress code, by the way.....

All the men including very senior ones wore expensive black jeans, scruffy t-shirts and often unbrushed hair. A receptionist in a Hobbs dress would not have been acceptable

Seems like a bit of a minefield. I'd turn up in jeans that were £16 from TU at Sainsbury's and blow their tiny minds.

Tonnerre
Not only that but it's fairly easy for places to find reasons and lean on people to go. I've seen and heard some utterly awful situations.

If someone enjoys their job and is a sensible adult who understands that companies and organisations have different dress codes/cultures etc I don't understand why anyone would choose this as a potential hill to die on. It seems to me to be an easy way to seem argumentative, uncooperative and awkard when the alternative is take the guidance (assuming it's from management) with some good grace and make some smaller changes for the good of the organisation.

Here are the reasons why a company may have a dress code beyond regular business wear.

1. Because they want to convey a certain image about the work that they do or the company brand.

You see this quite a lot in industries like advertising, design, innovation and more recently tech. They're very consciously shunning traditional formal wear to convey that what they do is different to a traditional business role (more creative/more focused on the job in hand/less stuffy/whatever).

It's important to senior management because it says something about the brand. What's more, clients come to expect these dress codes too. An art director in a sharp business suit would look very odd to a client and might undermine perceptions of their creativity.

To take another example, I work closely with a company that specialises in youth marketing. It's very important that they signal their specific credentials to speak for and to youth. Formal wear (designer dresses/suits) would inhibit this.

I'm not saying any of this is right by the way, I'm saying its how these businesses operate.

2. Because clothing impacts how people perceive you and too formal clothing can inhibit your ability to do your job.

So if your job involves connecting with people who may be inclined to put barriers up, more casual wear can make you appear more approachable, thus helping you gain trust and get better outcomes.

@Iamthewombat, I've worked across Social Care. We've had male members of staff told to stop carrying a brief case and wearing suits etc, unless going to Court.

In Children Centres, especially in deprived areas and in Social Care you are told to think carefully about your conversation topics. Holiday plans/new houses etc.

It's about being sensitive to others.

You’ve already been told Flowery. Bullying isn’t just about breaching the Equalities Act you know.

We still don't know what OP's job is or whether there is a written dress code, and whether she is adhering to it, which are the only points that matter really.

Because wearing smart business dress isn't for every setting and organisation.
It's really really not that difficult to understand.

The OP doesn't wear business dress. She wears, in her words, smart day dresses or skirts with a top or blouse, sometimes a cardigan.

That is really really not that difficult to understand, is it?

shearwater
And I don't think they're going to come back and tell us anyway.
Genderfree
Of course bullying isn't just ignoring the equalities act. It doesn't make any piece of feedback someone might not like bullying.

A lot depends on who passed the comment.

Personally, if I was following the letter of a policy but someone senior said to me "you might want to consider... Because..." Then I'd usually take it on board because it would be a rubbish environment if everything has to be stipulated in a book so regimented that nobody can give informal advice for fear of someone crying bullying.

We work with staff on classroom management and often part of the training involves talking about approachability, presentation etc. I've suggested to some staff that they alter how they stand and use the room space when they need to seem more authoritative. I've also suggested younger staff dress a bit more traditionally business dress and maintain more social distance because the relationships they'd formed were actually in danger of undermining their authority and respect in the classroom. I've also suggested to staff that they tone down certain things because it actually rubs some of the students up the wrong way. They could say "but technically none of that is in a policy and you can't suggest I don't wear fashionable outfits and change X y z". They'd be in their right to, but equally there's something to be said for listening to advice from others.
Just like I ditched blazers and jackets in another place because someone mentioned that some students struggled with authority symbols. I'm not entirely convinced soft waterfall blazer was ever authoritative as a symbol, but the advice was sound for that context.

Your right Shearwater. We also don’t know the status of the person telling her.

It could be just some random employee or a manager who’s exceeding their authority or not understanding their employers dress code. If the OP doesn’t come back and clarify, all we have is speculation.

As for enforcing dress codes, I’ve only ever worked in the private sector, so all the chat about unfair dismissal cases are alien to me.

You don’t really get ‘dismissed’ in the industries I’ve worked in (except for gross misconduct) but if you aren’t a good ‘fit’ (in whatever way) you will get managed out eventually.

Not saying that’s right either, but just how it works.

LolaSmiles-
“Of course bullying isn't just ignoring the equalities act. It doesn't make any piece of feedback someone might not like bullying”

I understand employment law and it’s not always straightforward as there isn’t a clear cut, covers every scenario definition of work bullying. I’m aware that negative feedback in itself doesn’t amount to bullying. I never said it did.

LaurieMarlow
That is also common in the public sector too. People either get managed out in an underhand way, or they end up realising they're not a very good fit for an organisation and opt to leave on good terms.

Even where I've heard of really bad cases in schools that are so obviously constructive dismissal, union guidance for those involved has been that it's almost impossible to win.

Laurie the private sector sector can fall foul of Unfair Dismissal (and Wrongful Dismissal) they aren’t above the law. Oh and managing someone out can also be unlawful.

they aren’t above the law

I never said they were

Oh and managing someone out can also be unlawful.

Oh I’m sure it technically is. But I’ve never seen anyone taken to task for it in the industries I’ve worked for.

Your right Lola. My former employer tried this with a number of employees who threatened to take it further, so they left with very generous settlements . Then again these particular (ex)employees are experienced Lawyers, so not a good idea really to attempt to treat them badly.