To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

Oh, FGS. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I feel a bit the same talking to you, Sarah.

I am not 'going on' about the video; I am merely pointing out that, contrary to what some seem to imagine, it's not a summary of queer theory.

You used it as 'proof' that I didn't know what I was talking about even after I'd agreed with you that it wasn't about queer theory. Take it up with the other poster who said that.

You seem to think that disrupting conventions isn't appropriate at primary school, because it will 'confuse' some children to learn about LGBT families.

I actually think that disrupting conventions isn't appropriate at primary school if it leads some children to think that they can change sex, or that if they don't conform to gender stereotypes they must be 'trans'. Of course there is nothing wrong with them being taught about LGB families, but LGB families are no longer disrupting conventions, they are now just as unremarkable as heterosexual couples with families.

I don't think it will harm children to learn that some of their classmates have two mummies

Of course it won't. And I don't understand how you have got the idea I think otherwise from what I have posted. It's gender identity ideology that is homophobic.

Ok, maybe it's best we just leave this, then.

Re the video, Alex does say that he got the idea that he was a woman after studying queer theory. So maybe it's Alex who's misunderstood what it is.

You can be a feminine boy or a masculine girl. That is absolutely fine. It does not mean you are the opposite sex and need life long hormone treatment and surgery to fix yourself into a gender stereotype. I wouldn't let Stonewall or Mermaids near any child. FFS Stonewall don't even believe in same sex attraction (check their definition on their website if you don't believe me). I can't think of a more homophobic organisation

This absolutely.

I am very concerned about LGBT propaganda in schools ATM

How do people square supporting gender ideology which says biological sex is unimportant with homosexuality which is an attraction to biological sex
Homosexuality seems so passé now that gender ideology is saying we are all simply identities.I could be straight today, identify as a gay man tomorrow and be non binary the next.
It’s all very confusing, poor kids imagine having to navigate so much navel gazing as you grow up. The T needs to be handled very carefully by schools.

You need to speak to your Board of Governor s.
I was really impressed with our school as they focus a lot on friendship and safeguarding including forced marriage.

Sure Zeebo - will have trouble sleeping tonight after your scathing insight

Familyofaliens - thanks, will have a look. Want to raise it with my local MP too.

Can't think you and OldCrone will ever sleep again, Toorahtoorahaye!

This is the 'trans toolkit' for Oxfordshire schools. There are others like it for other parts of the UK. This one mentions both the 'gender unicorn' and the 'genderbread person' as 'useful tools in helping people understand gender as a spectrum

I'm familiar with the trans toolkit. Again this doesn't mean schools are teaching trans ideology/gender identity as fact.

There are going to be some children who struggle with their gender. In my opinion much of this comes down to stereo types that we as a society need to get rid of. But it's not for schools to tell children that their feelings and struggles are wrong or possibly due to gender dysmorphia, mental health problems etc. That's for medical people. Schools need to just spread the tolerance and acceptance message and that's what they are doing. The children struggling with their gender Identify should be able to rely on doctors and psychiatrists to help them and that is where we have the problem in my opinion. They aren't getting the right advice and support and I'm not sure how things have gone so wrong there.

*Dysphoria

I'm familiar with the trans toolkit. Again this doesn't mean schools are teaching trans ideology/gender identity as fact.

What do you think using the gender unicorn and genderbread person as teaching materials are doing? If anyone is using these they are teaching gender identity ideology as fact. Is your assumption that nobody is actually using these trans toolkits?

The children struggling with their gender Identify should be able to rely on doctors and psychiatrists to help them and that is where we have the problem in my opinion. They aren't getting the right advice and support and I'm not sure how things have gone so wrong there.

We could solve this easily by not teaching children that they have or should have a 'gender identity' in the first place.

What do you think using the gender unicorn and genderbread person as teaching materials are doing? If anyone is using these they are teaching gender identity ideology as fact. Is your assumption that nobody is actually using these trans toolkits?

I don't know any parent in real life who has said their child has been taught using the gender unicorn or genderbread person. I think most schools must be using common sense, thankfully.

We could solve this easily by not teaching children that they have or should have a 'gender identity' in the first place

I don't think they are 'teaching' children that they have a gender identity. I don't know anyone who has a child that has actually been taught that. Those feelings and ideas are coming from elsewhere, pressure from society to fit into stereotypes, parents taking boys to football and girls to ballet, the Internet etc. I think that if a child was struggling with their gender identity in a primary school the school would and should encourage other children to be kind. The ideal would be that the child who was having gender identity issues would get help and support to accept their body as it is from medical professionals but in the meantime the school should help other children to understand. The one child I know who is at a school that mentioned gender talked about it in terms of 'some people feel.....' That was at a secondary not primary school.

I think schools are trying to help children make sense of what they are seeing in society and on the Internet. My children can and have chatted to me about things they see and hear so don't really need this at school but some children don't have that luxury.

Here’s a good analysis of exactly what is involved in the No Outsiders programme (that has caused so many issues with parents in Birmingham).

www.transgendertrend.com/no-outsiders-queering-primary-classroom/

Threads like this really concern me. The posts from the OP seem deliberately goady. A number of posters have suggested you contact the school... but you don't seem to be keen on that. I am the CoG for an inner City Primary school, we have consulted with parents about every change that is made in the curriculum with regard to Sex Ed. We also have sessions prior to their lessons so parents can see what is taught. For us this is especially important as our school is 98% Moslem, so we walk a tightrope between religion and what government prescribes.

All you keep repeating is, that you are not keen on any organisations being involved in PSHE. I am a little at a loss as to how you think the curriculum is created? Without input by experts and an agreed pathway across the country, you would end up with an inconsistent approach where not all the facts were properly presented.

All I can ask is that you talk to your school to get the actual lesson plan rather than going off half cocked.

She knows about drag and is aware that a friend of the family used to be a girl but is now a man. That is impossible. People can't change sex

Well, duh
I'm presuming the poster and her dd aren't daft and know that you can't biologically change sex. That she is now living as a man, she hasn't biologically changed?
If a child can grasp it I really don't know why a lot on here seemingly can't.
Where's the OP, by the way? Did they plop and run or did I miss an update

Soz, just not seen a plopper and runner.
Phew

All you keep repeating is, that you are not keen on any organisations being involved in PSHE. I am a little at a loss as to how you think the curriculum is created? Without input by experts and an agreed pathway across the country, you would end up with an inconsistent approach where not all the facts were properly presented.

The OP seemed to be concerned that trans lobby groups like Mermaids and Stonewall would be involved in delivering this part of the curriculum. These are not 'experts', they are people with an agenda, who shouldn't be let anywhere near children.

That she is now living as a man

How is living as a man different from living as a woman?

Latte only schools are taking advice from Mermaids, who are not an expert body. They are a parent support group and - importantly - political lobbyists. What other non-expert political lobby groups get to advice schools in this manner?

Latte - where did you get I’m not keen on any orgs having input? I’ve said I’m concerned about certain charities and what they are advising - several are actually misleading schools - does that matter?

So which orgs/charities provides information on gender identity and inclusion in your school and what is your school’s policy on inclusion?

I recently attended a safeguarding training course where there were staff from a school who had had Mermaids in to “train” the staff.

The result was that when it came to discussing a fictional case study involving a gender-questioning 12-year-old, the staff who’d had the Mermaids training said the first step in their response would be to contact Mermaids - even before they had offered support to the child and spoken to the parents. Their safeguarding training had gone right out of the window after one session with Mermaids.

I want rosesandraindrops to tell us what "living as a man" means- i guess i'm just not progressive enough to understand.

I’m not bigoted in any way. I have no problem with any of the LGBT things but I just don’t want it being taught to my daughter! She is only 10 months but why on earth is learning about it necessary? They should have their time in school being used for much much more important things!

I’m pretty sure primary school is there to help your child with the basic educational needs eg maths and English! They should not be taught anything that could emotionally affect their state of mind by anyone but their parents! It is their right if they wish to discuss these things with them!

Why do we have lessons on LGBT and such when we don’t even have major lessons on how to keep our kids safe in every aspect of their lives! For example if we have LGBT classes we should have classes on how to stop making girls and boys obsessed with spending time on the internet taking selfies on stupid apps like snapchat we should have more self confidence classes and things like that, instead of classes like LGBT ones that make kids confused about themselves.

I am all for love whoever you love! I just don’t want my daughter being taught that she may be another gender/sex and that she can change if she wants too! It is ridiculous because even if they get an OP it doesn’t change the chromosomes they are born with.

For example I am 15 weeks pregnant and two weeks ago due to needing a CVS test done I found out that my little bundle of joy is a boy due to their chromosomes being tested! So in fact with transgenders actually it doesn’t matter what their chromosomes are or what parts they are born with because they can choose! I will be teaching my children that the parts they are born with match the chromosomes they have inside them and all of those things work together in order to ensure that one day if they choose to they can create offspring!

I will not have some primary school telling/teaching my children anything differently!