To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

Just had a look and my kids school has the Equality Act 2010 on their website. “Sex (including transgender)” is listed as a protected characteristic. Why? Not feeling confident in how they are approaching this.

I have children/nephews//nieces and friends children at various schools all over the UK. Their lessons have all been very similar and nothing about queer theory, nothing about changing sex etc has ever been even mentioned.

I have seen posts on here where parents have reported that their children have come home after these lessons thinking that they can change sex.

The gender unicorn and genderbread person are promoted for use in schools. Presumably some schools have used them, but I have no direct evidence of this. I'd love to discover that they were just a hoax.

People can, and do, change gender.
What does this mean?

She knows about drag and is aware that a friend of the family used to be a girl but is now a man.
That is impossible. People can't change sex.

But you don't even begin to understand the terminology you're using or the concepts you're attacking.

Sarah you can't possibly know what I do or don't understand. What makes you think you do?

Erm, because I can read?

If you understand queer theory, you are deliberately pretending not to.

Now I don't personally find queer theory to be all that amazing; I have serious and less-serious issues both with it, and with individual applications of it.

But I do not accept that queer theory is, in a nutshell, what that video linked to is explaining. That's just nonsense.

OP you are right to be concerned. I actively want my children to understand LGB issues, that families look different etc. Hell they see it within their own family and our friends.

But transgender issues are a whole different ball game and all too easily well meaning but uncritical people can end up inadvertently confusing young children and reinforcing harmful stereotypes as to how “genders” should present and act. Otherwise that boy who likes dressing up in the princess dresses and playing with dolls , surely he is actually a girl and that girl with the short hair who likes football and climbing trees and won’t wear dresses she must be a boy?

I have spoken to my children’s school and made clear my concerns to the head. I can understand there may be a need to cover BUT it requires great care and thought. And not the pink brain blue brain princesses v footballers crap.

Btw The materials last year were fine when I reviewed them but I will be keeping a beady eye on how this develops next year.

OP I'm pretty sure (happy to be corrected) that gender identity is not a protected characteristic however gender reassignment is so straight away that definition is a big fat wrong.

Clang the danger in saying "people can change gender" is that gender is too often confused with biological sex. Young people need to do your cannot change your sex. That's what is wrong with that statement, for me.

I have seen posts on here where parents have reported that their children have come home after these lessons thinking that they can change sex.

The gender unicorn and genderbread person are promoted for use in schools. Presumably some schools have used them, but I have no direct evidence of this. I'd love to discover that they were just a hoax.

I've seen these posts too. The thing is the people posting these things could have an agenda. If my child came home saying they had been taught it or someone I actually knew and trusted had seen their school using this material, then I would trust them and take issue. It's funny that the only people I've ever heard saying 'my child was told they could change sex' or 'my son was told that because he plays with dolls he must be a girl' have been on the Internet. That leads me to believe it's not actually happening in schools. I really believe that if it was happening, I or someone I trusted would know someone in real life who had a child that had been taught it.

That said, I think social media and the Internet along with a minority of individuals absolutely can get into childrens heads and have them thinking that if they do not conform to stereotypes then they should think about their gender identity. Schools in my experience do everything to try to get rid of stereotypes, not encourage them.

If you understand queer theory

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this. My understanding is that it is about subverting cultural and social norms, and it builds on postmodern ideas about there being no objective truths. This leads to the notion that biological sex, like gender, is a social construct, so there is no objective definition of what a woman is, for example. I'm a scientist and this is way out of my field, so I may have got some of this wrong. If so, maybe you could do a better short synopsis for those of us who are not queer theory experts.

But I do not accept that queer theory is, in a nutshell, what that video linked to is explaining.

I think the only video on this thread is the Magdalen Berns one. It's a great video, but I don't think she says it's about queer theory. It's about the insanity of gender identity ideology, which says that a man is a woman if he says he is. The one featured in the video has been given the opportunity to go into schools to teach children about this. This is a heterosexual man who is only part of LGBT if you accept that T stands for transvestite.

No Outsiders (charity involved in the Birmingham protests) promotes itself as an expert on the Equality Act but has swapped protected characteristic SEX for gender identity - why would they do this - doesn’t fill me with confidence. They are not the only LGBT charity to do this.

I did a short synopsis.

FFS.

Just below the video, a poster says For those asking what queer theory is about, just watch the above short video. That's it in a nutshell.

From the way you've posted, you and the OP are both using queer theory in this sense - ie., entirely misunderstanding it.

SarahAndQuack I just went back and looked at your synopsis which I read earlier and referred to in an earlier reply. It's relatively long (compared to my 2 sentences) and much more specific, talking mainly about homosexuality. But the last part of it is in fact very similar to my synopsis, so I'll assume that we agree on what it is.

Queer theorists talk about 'queering' expectations, meaning disrupting them, in similar ways to the way homosexuality disrupts the pattern of marriage and children.

There is more to queer theory than this, and sure, it does relate to gender, but at the very basic level, this is it. Just a way to think about disruption and social expectations. Not scary.

So I'm not sure why you think I've misunderstood when I'm agreeing with you. It's about disrupting and subverting conventional cultural and social norms. And since people have written whole books about it, I even agree that there's much more to it (not all of which I am familiar with).

Not sure why you keep going on about a video which isn't even about queer theory (even though another poster said it was) - although it is about gender ideology, which is linked to queer theory.

This is from the gov. uk site so those other organisations have perhaps made a rather popular typo?!

People just don't like using the word sex.
I don't know why it's such an issue, the one thing that pretty much everyone agrees on is that sex is different to gender identity, and you can't change your sex.
I think it makes it easier to explain to children as well - sex is your body & biology. People can change the way they look, and ask people to treat them differently, to appear as someone of the opposite sex or a stereotype of what that should be but let's not get into that if they have a strong personal feeling that they aren't happy with their sex.

MonChatEstMagnifique This is the 'trans toolkit' for Oxfordshire schools. There are others like it for other parts of the UK. This one mentions both the 'gender unicorn' and the 'genderbread person' as 'useful tools in helping people understand gender as a spectrum'. Maybe all the teachers are ignoring this nonsense, but I don't think we should be too complacent about that.

schools.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/sites/schools/files/folders/folders/documents/antibullying/policies/TransInclusionToolkitforSchools.pdf

I simply don’t want an outside group with an agenda I don’t agree or believe in to be teaching and influencing my kids. I have raised concerns with these charities about how they operate, pointed out the Sex/gender identity issue and was blocked by one and had a reply from the other that again reinforced the concerns I have. I wondered if other parents had similar concerns or were aware. I’m nervous about approaching my kids school as I suspect they already have been influenced by these charities.

The Cornwall Council guidance is quite good in my opinion although it doesn't give much help on how to manage inevitable conflicts between the safety, dignity and rights of female students as a pose to trans studenty (MtF specifically). I'd like to see more on this (acknowledgement, and advice) in all guidance.
www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/13620644/schools-transgender_guidance_booklet-2015.pdf

OP, we haven’t had any groups coming in to train our staff yet.

But I’ve briefed our head about what’s out there and have contacted people in our LA to let them know what the trans lobbying groups are saying to schools about the Equality Act.

I think this is a good point at which to post the Safe Schools Alliance fact sheet, which you might want to send to your head and governors:

safeschoolsallianceuk.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/ssa-concernsaims.pdf

You lost me at "teaching them queer theory" You are a homophobe pretending not to be one and I pity your child if they are LGBTIQ.

Just speak to the school rather than hype yourself up on researching things that may not be taught in your child's school and getting yourself into a frenzy of what may be happening.....

Oh, FGS. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I am not 'going on' about the video; I am merely pointing out that, contrary to what some seem to imagine, it's not a summary of queer theory.

You seem to think that disrupting conventions isn't appropriate at primary school, because it will 'confuse' some children to learn about LGBT families.

Does it occur to you that, under Section 28, an awful lot of children were 'confused' (and worse) because they weren't taught about LGBT families?

School is all about learning to question what you think you know, to expand your horizons and to learn about things that are different from what you've encountered. I don't think it will harm children to learn that some of their classmates have two mummies, but it will harm children to find that their family is completely erased from all discussions of family, or that they're directly told their family is a 'pretence' or a perversion.

10,000 dresses - I YouTubed it to see what’s it’s like:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=1rPKySoHewI

Umm, pretty confusing. Can’t boys like dresses and also be boys?

What age are the children you read this too?

That paragraph would concern me too OP. Pretty much "some women have penises" really 😳

I first took part in a gay rights march when I was 14. I'm all in favour of children being taught that LGB families are just as valid as any other.

However I am strongly opposed to gender ideology and would resist any attempt to teach it to DC. The homophobia intrinsic to a belief that people are sexually attracted to gender identity rather than sex is very disturbing. Lesbians are adult human females who are sexually attracted to other adult human females should not be a controversial statement.

ah, Section 28. Always dragged out to silence the bigots, amirite?