To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

They're teaching everyone to become A GAY! And they're going to push even harder to turn the kids TRANS too. So using their magical powers they'll turn all our straight, heterosexual, non questioning children into BIG GAY TRANS PEOPLE! Or what they might do is encourage love and acceptance to others regardless of their differences. But more likely they'll use their magic powers and do the big gay thing.

Gay and trans are very different though. Gay is about who you like. Nothing about your body needs to be hormonally or surfing ally altered. Trans seems to be based on reductive gender stereotypes and the lie that people can change sex.

I don’t want my children reading, “I am Jazz”. Jazz Jennings, now aged 18, has been castrated, has no libido, never had an orgasm and never will and is infertile. Jazz’s “vagina” has been created out of thigh skin, peritoneum and scrotum and burst open post-operately. Jazz will be a life-long medical patient, with future partners limited to those who don’t mind that Jazz gets no pleasure from sex.

It breaks my heart to read that, nolonger

It’s awful, isn’t it? Truly macabre. Any ideology that promotes that sort of child abuse should be actively avoided.

Completely agree. Jazz’s parents should hang their heads in shame for their part in this sad outcome.

Jazz’s mother baked a penis cake before Jazz was castrated. And the surgery trying to make a neovagina was complicated by Jazz’s penis being so small, as he was never allowed to go through natural puberty.

I’d be suspicious of LGBT teaching too as the idea of “trans kids” on puberty blockers is sickening to me. The LGB stuff is a non-issue and covered by, “It’s OK and normal to be attracted to people of their same as well”.

• the same sex

Do you use books that talk about race and the brain? If not why not? Apparently it's fine to discuss blue brain and pink brain because some people believe this. Well done people have some utterly abhorrent ideas about race and the brain but you won't be using those theories will you. Its only women as a group who have to put up with these regressive ideas.

Parents exclaimed the same problem when homosexuality was introduced to the curriculum. Is the current trans fear for the same reason? It will turn them trans?

Some rather hysterical posts on here: frothing at the mouth, censorship and all in response to people expressing valid concerns.
Others are throwing in the old concerns about trans ideology = homophobia. Have to say, the tactics on display make interesting reading.
All to shut down discussions about why gender stereotypes are bullshit and have no place in primary schools.

Parents exclaimed the same problem when homosexuality was introduced to the curriculum. Is the current trans fear for the same reason? It will turn them trans?

Yes, that’s exactly what people are worried about. So nice to see you’ve not only RTFT but also all the links to the materials people are concerned about

It is always fascinating to watch. Never any answer to why we are teaching sexist nonsense in school. Never any answer to why middle aged women who fought for gay rights would suddenely become bigots.

Yes they stick to the homophobic script like glue. Anyone would think the trans agenda would fold without blatant lies about how questioning it is akin to homophobia 🤫

The LGB stuff is a non-issue

I was accused of homophobia earlier in the thread for saying that. I said that LGB relationships are just ordinary, normal and part of mainstream society, just like heterosexual relationships. That was interpreted to mean that I think that homophobia doesn't exist, and therefore I am homophobic.

I was accused of homophobia earlier in the thread for saying that. I said that LGB relationships are just ordinary, normal and part of mainstream society, just like heterosexual relationships. That was interpreted to mean that I think that homophobia doesn't exist, and therefore I am homophobic.

Well, that’s a somewhat unique approach isn’t it? It’s almost as though people are trying hard to take umbrage. I wonder why people on this thread would do that?

The paradox with the trans agenda is that even though it may be viewed as some by ultra woke and progressive it’s founded on very regressive gender stereotypes. And propagated in children by a particular type of parent.

I have no issue with adults who have gone through natural puberty and experienced sexual feelings transitioning. But children need to be steered well away from the puberty blocking, cross sex hormone, later surgery pathway.

“I am Jazz” needs a sequel, explaining to children that Jazz looks like a woman but can’t have normal adult sexual feelings, needs to have surgery on their front hole (it’s not a vagina), can’t ever have a child and will need to take hormones for the rest of their life. Maybe with a cutesy diagram demonstrating adverse effects of puberty blockers on brain development and bone health.

Transgender ideology is homophobic.

I've just read the Amazon sample of I Am Jazz and I'm genuinely and, to be blunt, increasingly angry.

Jazz explains the things they like - back flips, singing, dancing, drawing, mermaids etc and Jazz's best friends are girls and the implication seems to be that these are all 'girl' things - super

But here's the interesting bit - Jazz also likes soccer.

Now. I'm a middle-aged Brit and, when I was young, football was very much a Male Thing (I'm glad to think that's changed quite a bit since then, of course, but I think it's fair to say it's still very male-dominated in the UK), but I've seen many accounts of American trans girls who are soccer fans, citing this as evidence that they are trans, which puzzled me.

On further reading, I've learnt that, in the US, soccer is predominantly seen as a 'girls' game. (UK football and US soccer are, of ccourse, exactly the same game - Association Football.)

In other words, football-mad UK girl = 'Ooh - could be trans'. Soccer-mad US boy = 'Ooh - could be trans'.

Or, of course, the adults around Jazz could have shown Jazz examples of male dancers, artists, soccer players and explained how silly gender-stereotypes are...

Or, of course, the adults around Jazz could have shown Jazz examples of male dancers, artists, soccer players and explained how silly gender-stereotypes are...sad

Any deviation from rigid gender stereotypes in boys seems to worry some parents that their son will be gay.

So instead, trans away the gay!

It's not about that though. Everyone knows that being a boy or girl isn't just about liking stereotypical gendered things. The fact is that some people will feel a huge disconnect and discomfort with the genitals they were born with. When people say things like 'I don't know what it means to say I feel like a woman' that's because you've never had to think about it because your genitals match who you are. It's not surprising that those of us in that situation can't actually imagine what it's like to feel differently.

Honestly there is some serious selective reading going on with some posters now!

Concerns regarding some messages which could be given to kids,. Concerns about organisations with dubious agendas who are the leading authority on the "T". Worries about the path youngsters could be encouraged to take involving medication, sterilisation and cutting up bodies.

How the fuck is this anti LGBT+/transphobic?

Oh and whilst we're on the subject of censorship ... I seem to recall a certain TRA frothing at the mouth over posters featuring the dictionary definition of "woman "

When people say things like 'I don't know what it means to say I feel like a woman' that's because you've never had to think about it because your genitals match who you are.

Letsghostdance, you are assuming children who struggle with their gender, have gender dypshoria. But that is not the only criterium to diagnose, it is not mandatory at all. Being uncomfortable with your body development is also a criterium used, but what child going through puberty doesn't have issues with this?
For prepuberty it is often wanting to be like your friends, so if a boy plays with girls, then they want to also physically be like their friends. But left alone or being taught to appreciate the differences and accept the body you have, would help these children a lot more than socially transitioning. Teaching children that they can change their sex means teaching them they need surgery and medication to fit into the world. Is that really a message you want to give?

Everyone knows that being a boy or girl isn't just about liking stereotypical gendered things. The fact is that some people will feel a huge disconnect and discomfort with the genitals they were born with.

In the first few pages of 'I am Jazz' that you can see on the Amazon preview, it's all about stereotypes and how Jazz has 'a girl brain in a boy body'. Presumably all the stuff about how Jazz hates 'her' penis comes later in the book.

But even if someone does have a disconnect and discomfort with their genitals, don't you think it would be more sensible to let them understand what those genitals are for by letting them go through puberty before allowing them to think that they need to be modified? Since 80-90% of gender dysphoric children are no longer dysphoric post puberty, it makes even more sense to be cautious.

Yes. Some people do have discomforts with their body. Especially in puberty, ITS NORMAL. Ok not every girl experiances that, but it’s still NORMAL.

What makes it worse? People calling you a weirdo. People bullying you for being different. People trying to change you.

Btw, checked the mirror, no frothing. Thanks for the concern for my health.

The fact is that some people will feel a huge disconnect and discomfort with the genitals they were born with.

Sure some people may feel this and especially during puberty when everything is changing but even if it persists after puberty this doesn’t mean you are actually the other sex does it?

Someone mentioned Jigsaw who I hadn’t heard of so had a look. Teaching tolerance is lovely but teaching kids to repeat the same mantra is convenient for the orgs who have managed to get their policies adopted by schools so that a trans child should be allowed to use any toilet or changing facility they feel most comfortable with. Any child who is uncomfortable with this (say a teenage girl who now has a male classmate who identifies as a girl and can access the girls changing rooms/loos) must speak up on any discomfort and be the one to remove herself to an alternative space. I’m not ok with this approach. How difficult is it going to be for a child to speak up, to think they even can when it goes against their inclusive teaching.