To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

(And does that question seem to you to be an important one?)

Why do you keep framing questions to me like this?
Are you trying to insinuate something as I don't always agree with everything?
Of course it's an important question. I was going by my experience, I appreciate it might be more difficult from anyone suffering from ASD.

This is a thoughtful and considered article on the homophobia inherent in the T agenda:

"Along with the physical and emotional discomfort that is typical of undergoing puberty, it has become more socially acceptable to be a transgender man than a gay woman. The study’s findings also showed that transitioning increased students’ popularity among their peers and offered greater protection from harassment, because teachers were more concerned about anti-trans bullying than bullying that was anti-gay."

That has been borne out by so many of the detransitioned women who have bravely recounted their stories.

quillette.com/2018/10/23/the-unspoken-homophobia-propelling-the-transgender-movement-in-children/

I’m trying (and, it would appear, failing) to get you to consider an experience beyond your own, probably very different from your own. People with ASD are just as important as you, you see. To me, more so.

People with ASD are just as important as you, you see

Stop press. No, really?! Who'da thunk!
Sorry, but seems this is the only level you're capable of engaging at.

I’m trying (and, it would appear, failing) to get you to consider an experience beyond your own, probably very different from your own

Yeah, that's why I said I appreciate it'd be difficult for people with ASD, innit.
So not quite sure where you're getting I'm failing to consider an experience beyond my own, like.

So if they are as important, what do you think the effect on them might be of exposure to the sort of material you are so confident would have bounced off you? Concrete, literal thinkers. How might they process that sort of material? Do you think it would be helpful to them?

I can tell you the answer to this, in fact, because I’ve seen it, but I’ll be interested to hear your conclusions - even more interested as to what you think the consequences of those should be.

OK raindrops, going back a page you commenetd on how you knew you were a girl despite pattern matching a more masculine stereotype. And I am interpretting you as saying it’s different for some children , and further saying that being less negatives and more supportive around trans is a great way to support theses children?

I would disagree with the final step there . As a child I knew I was really a boy, despite being clearly physically female.

As such I think the current trans enabling world would have been very dangerous for me. It could have led to a lifetime of medicalisation. A permanent state of unhappiness and disconnect with my body.

fUrther, today I totally see that the reason for my disconnect was purely external. THE expectations and pressures of society made me think there was something wrong with me, whereas now I know it’s something wrong in society.

made me think there was something wrong with me, whereas now I know it’s something wrong in society.

YES. Children are being told there's something wrong with them and that it can be fixed. It's appalling.

sorry - I should have said that children are being told that there's something wrong with them and they can be fixed.

The lack of willingness to try to change society rather than persuading children they need to change their bodies tells us all we need to know about what is driving this movement.

yes

But why use that example of a bad teacher to throw out the whole programme? That is plain homophobia. All of these fig leaves of 'I don't mind if my child is gay ... when they're grown up' or 'I have nothing against lesbian mothers but I don't like queer theory so I object to this programme - they strike me as excuses

I actually don't care about what it looks like. Sex and relationships are deeply personal, it's something like teaching religion (and a lot of MNers would actually like religion to be taken out of schools for good). You want to be able to trust educators. A bad teacher or dodgy curriculum can be a serious mindfuck.

Sex anx relationships are deeply personal , yes, and you can't prevent precious Penny or little Johnny from growing up gay or transgender or bisexual or lesbian by leaving LGBTI discussion out of sex ed. We are not holding the fabric of a decent person or society together by pretending those persons and relationships do not exist, we are spreading ignorance, and fear and hate of LGBTIQ persons.

@midsummabreak

Please RTFT.

@AriadneCrete

*I teach Year 6 and the school follows the Jigsaw scheme for PSHE. We don’t just do a lesson, we do a whole term on RSE (Relationships and Sex Education) which includes transgender and same sex relationships.

Some of the books I’ve used within my lessons: Dad David, Baba Chris and Me, I am Jazz, 10,000 Dresses.*

Just had a closer look at “I Am Jazz” due to some of the reactions - would not have wanted this taught to my kids.

A bad parent can be a serious “mindfuck” and cause homophobia which children and adults in the LGBT community have a right to be protected from.

ExActly moo, it’s a very serious topic. Op is correct in saying that society as a whole really needs to know what is being taught, society as a whole needs to be supportive, with many subjects such as physics you can download the syllabus, you can study exam papers, read the books

The book highlighted above talking about a girl brain is horrific

I cannot , as a scientist and none-boy support anything that talks about girl brains and boys brains. The fundamental source of assumptions that women are inferior to men mentally. That fallacy was the source of assumptions that women should be paid less, can’t do physics and should not be part of political discussions. DO you really want your children taught a falsehood that has led to the discrimination of women for centuries?

ANd midsummer, whilst you can’t stop a child growing up gay, it seems that transgender is much more influenced by society. ( as an aside I do think some people really do have deeper problems)

Studies show that the proportion of gay people is broadly constant acrosss time and culture. The proportion of trans identifying people is not and tends to be highest in societies with the most rigid gendered roles and sterotypes.

This is why you now have thousands of teenage girls identifying as trans, and thousands of middle aged women going..er no, we have been through that, we know exactly where you are coming from, don’t take homrones or get yourself cut up , onto hurt yourself, you ar perfect as you, it will get better, you will get stronger.

So you will be asking for a list of every single picture book read to children in school to check that they meet your standards.

Good luck with that. A typical reception class will get through 100s in a school year with some not planned.

So something being difficult means you won’t question and challenge ? How odd

Luckily the average reception book can be read in something like 30s. I did helping with reading for years 1 for a while.

But they won’t give you a list of every book that will be read to the class because it’s a moveable feast and impossible to forecast .

The power of the mumsnet can Be harnesssed There are clearly books that are not suitable., one highlighted aboveboard. Mumsnetters will find them. They are parents and teachers. If you have kids at primary, ask if those books are used. If yes, prod and poke and challenge, simple.

Um MN doesn’t speak for all parents and MN doesn’t have an anti LGBT education stance, plenty of us applaud it.What pisses off a few zealots will cause quite the reverse in other parents.

You want a debate over every single book read? How will that pan out? As the parent of an LGBT child I find some books and materials on the Muslim faith offensive and detrimental to my child’s mental health. Others won’t agree. All sorts of books will be undesirable for all sorts of reasons.Gathering a witch hunt and book censoring every single time is a ridiculous idea and quite worrying.

I like to teach my children tolerance.

My older daughters have had sex Ed at their school from 11 years - very pragmatic, factual and matter of fact about puberty and bodily changes. In the year 6 and 7 the children were encouraged to write (anonymous) questions they had for the sex Ed teacher and apparently there were loads about sex - how it works, what it feels like etc. Same sex relationships were discussed in a matter-of-fact “there’s nothing wrong with who you are attracted to” way. All very well done and well-received by the kids.

However, if my children were taught about “trans kids”, “being born in the wrong body” and told that people can actually change sex then I’d be furious. Maybe a few years ago I’d have been falling over myself to be non-questioning but the trans train of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and subsequent issues with brain development and sexual function constitutes experimenting on children and I’m not having them taught that shit in school.