To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

it's definitely been said on this thread that trans shouldn't be taught in schools.

I’m not really sure what “teaching trans” actually means, but my objections are around the materials being pushed into schools that say children are “assigned male or female at birth”, that everyone has a gender identity, and that if for example girls are uncomfortable changing for PE with male-bodied students, it’s the girls who should move (recommendation from the Allsorts toolkit for school) because their feelings of discomfort are transphobic.

I also object to government-funded organisations such as Stonewall stating on their website and to local authorities that teaching materials with a different approach are “dangerous” and that by using them, school staff would be breaking the law.

Teaching that some people don’t feel comfortable with their sexed bodies and prefer to present to the world in a way more usually associated with the opposite sex - no problem with that.

And for me, I would add to Family’s excellent post above that having a family unit different from what has been traditionally seen as “normal” I.e. mum, dad, 2 kids etc is just as valid and “normal” as the traditional nuclear family. 2 mums, 2 dads, one only, grandparents, foster parents etc are all families too.

I believe schools need to teach what is best understood as truth

Until there is a clear scientific understand8ng of what trans really means ( and it can’t be changing sex becuase scientifically that’s impossible) we don’t really know what we should be teaching.

And we must be extremely careful teaching children about things that lead to physical harm, like cutting up a body unnecsiarily.

Is it better to teach that some people are trans, or is it better to teach that gender norms are a form of Bullying?

Agree, Midge.

But until organisations like Mermaids and Stonewall stop conflating sex and gender, and start encouraging children to express their personality however they want provided it does no harm, that conversation will never happen.

FamilyOfAliens - your post on why you object is excellently put and exactly my stance on it

Thank you, OP

I haven't seen any anti trans contributions on this thread. I think some posters are quick to jump on anyone looking out for young girls and safeguarding all children (including trans kids from going down a path of what could be irreversible hormone treatments and body mutilation) and label it as anti trans.

Roses I don't know if you're selectively reading but many of us have expressed concerns not that "trans" is explored and discussed is school but that the source material and organisations that could be involved are a problem. Have you seen the slides from Stonewall that OP shared? This organisation deliberately misquotes the Equally Act FFS!

Also Family has said it perfectly and BigBall is absolutely right that much of the ideology out there from TRA is very sexist, viscous and damaging. And actually doing a massive disservice to many youngsters who are being led to believe they can somehow become the opposite sex.

I think it's fairly anti trans to talk about 'protecting our children' from learning about trans issues. Ditto the posters who bring up abuse by men of women in every trans thread. They are seperate issues.

Children do not decide to be trans because they heard about it at school! Your children are not going to come home and say 'hey, I heard at school that I could "magically become another sex" so I thought I'd go through years of counselling, spend thousands and thousands of pounds and become another sex, even though I identify with my biological sex'

I don't think it's unreasonable to find out what your children are studying at school, but the reasoning behind it is difficult to swallow. I hope you are all as invested in the sources and content of their maths/English/chemistry syllabus. Strange I've not seen any posts about those here...

Bosh I would be very interested should those subjects involve teaching such monstrous lies such as humans being able to change sex, or humans being assigned anything other than their name at birth, and if those subjects involved a homophobic, sexist ideology in the way that trans ideology does.

And we know that there absolutely is social contagion with regard to gender identity and children. You help no child by denying that.

boshmama

As I have made clear beyond doubt, I have an issue with people being taught gender stereotypes as in women are like Barbie and men are like GI Joe, or whatever nonsense is on Mermaids slide. That is harmful. Not because of trans people or because children might think they’re trans, it is independently harmful to reinforce these expectations on children.

I have no issue at all with awareness that transgender people exist and are normal people who deserve respect being taught to children. In fact I think it should be.

So before your post makes any sense, you need to define “trans issues”.

I hope you are all as invested in the sources and content of their maths/English/chemistry syllabus. Strange I've not seen any posts about those here...

You must have missed the poster upthread who said exactly this and my reply that said for schools following the National Curriculum, details of the syllabuses are available on the DfE website.

And when subjects are factual, there is not normally much to object to about what is taught.

The line is crossed when the information written specifically for schools - and supposedly as guidance for how to support gender-questioning children and young people - is not factual, but the personal opinions of people who work for the trans lobbying groups. And when schools and local authorities are told that materials that don’t validate those personal opinions are “dangerous” and against the law.

I’m sure you can there’s a difference.

Yeah that is a pretty poor analogy.

The content of my child's maths studies don't concern me you're right. As far as I'm aware that syllabus can't potentially be influenced by dubious organisations who would like self if with no exceptions to be law. They are the connection for me as if self id happens as Stonewall would like then it's pretty easy for a predatory male to get closer to our kids.

It's absolutely all connected.

Here’s the Mermaids slide you mentioned, quaffy.

This was included in a training course for the police.

Oh dear Bosh, you need to get back to school. Biology lessons.
No one can change their sex. Faff around with switching gender expression to your hearts content, but you cannot actually change sex. Your DNA isn’t going to change because you clicked your ruby red shoes.
Teach kids tolerance, all that’s needed. Leave the trans fad and its homophobic message out of the classroom.

So sick of this. I hated my body and wanted to be like my brothers. I frequently said I was a boy and refused to do anything 'girly'. At puberty I would have quite happily ripped out the thing that made me bleed and cut of my breasts. If a teacher said or if there was an Internet that told me I was trapped in the wrong body, I would have believed it..... and gone completely against my parents who told me I would get through it and come out the other side. This is why we have to be very careful what we teach children and the advice that we take from lobby groups. Stonewall and Mermaids are run by people with skin in the game and also take medical advice from overseas and none NHS private doctors who all make money from this. People with genuine body dysphoria need to be supported,bit none of this should be taught as fact, it's an ideology.

Where are all the middle-aged women transitioning?

OP “Wasn’t a high school student in Scotland taken out of class and reprimanded for not accepting the gender identity over biological sex ...I believe he was expelled.”

This is classic disinformation. The boy was excluded for, amongst other things, secretly filming a teacher on school premises and publishing it on YouTube.

That the OP drops this in, then goes on to repost the video itself shortly afterwards, shows an agenda that was more hidden in the early part of the thread.

This whole thread is just the usual gambit to bring FWR rhetoric into AIBU to “peak trans” more mn posters by peresenting a highly biased view of trans issues.

No What, it’s a thread on a forum mainly for mums where we are discussing valid concerns about our children’s education.
#debate

The boy was excluded for, amongst other things, secretly filming a teacher on school premises and publishing it on YouTube.

That’s true.

The other part of the story is that the student was punished for saying that he only believed there were two genders (I expect he meant two sexes but that’s what happens when people around you use the wrong terminology). The teacher said that the student was not permitted to voice this opinion in school.

What - I think what happened to the teenage boy in the video is what happens when you let orgs with a bias/agenda set a policy in schools based on their belief systems. The teacher in the video was also obviously struggling with the concepts but was following what he was told was national school policy (or some similar wording). Did you think the boy deserved to be pulled out of class, punished and lectured to conform?

Family is right.
The boy was right for speaking out too.

Here is an article that shines further light on this subject:

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/how-parents-are-being-shut-out-of-the-transgender-debate/

Yes I definitely felt for the teacher too.

Those of us who work in schools are not experts on this topic (though some of us have learned more about it than others).

We rely on being given accurate and factual information if the government expects us to teach it to the children.

The other part of the story is that the student was punished for saying that he only believed there were two genders (I expect he meant two sexes but that’s what happens when people around you use the wrong terminology). The teacher said that the student was not permitted to voice this opinion in school.

Do we know that he was punished just for the opinion though? For all we know he got sent out for disrupting a lesson by trying to keep arguing with a teacher on an off topic subject, whereas a polite 'agree to disagree' might have seen no punishment.

The line is crossed when the information written specifically for schools - and supposedly as guidance for how to support gender-questioning children and young people - is not factual, but the personal opinions of people who work for the trans lobbying groups. And when schools and local authorities are told that materials that don’t validate those personal opinions are “dangerous” and against the law.

That line is 'crossed' when kids are taught that same-sex relationships are normal and valid etc. They either say nothing on the subject, or an opinion is being expressed. I don't think there is a line to say that no opinions can be expressed in principle.

Do we know that he was punished just for the opinion though?

Tbf I’m not sure which part of the scenario could be said to be to blame for him being excluded. But I think it’s fair to say that had he not expressed an opinion that went against the school’s view of what’s acceptable, he would not have been sent out of the classroom.