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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

560 replies

Toorahtoorahaye · 27/08/2019 22:59

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

OP posts:
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24
SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 22:32

Ok, I rephrase: school is about questioning and learning to ask why. Otherwise it is a place for indoctrination, not education.

Happy now?

OldCrone · 29/08/2019 22:32

There's loads of homophobic views still out there that don't see same sex families as equal! (Not saying I don't btw) They're definitely discriminated against, even if you see them as unremarkable.

But we weren't talking about discrimination, we were talking about whether something was disrupting society. There is plenty of sexism about, but including women as equals is not disrupting society.

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 22:32

I have not said that

You said you see them as normal and unremarkable like reasonable people do. That they're accepted in society just like heterosexuals are. When it's clear there's still a lot of homophobia around (I sadly know of at least one person who wouldn't see two mums or two dads as equal to a mum and dad)
A lot of views like that still exist unfortunately.
People do and would frequently see it as disrupting even if you don't think they do.

OldCrone · 29/08/2019 22:35

Ok, I rephrase: school is about questioning and learning to ask why. Otherwise it is a place for indoctrination, not education.

You were right the first time: Education is about questioning and learning to ask why. School is something different. It's about learning to live in society.

It took me a long time to realise that school was more about indoctrination than education (but a light bulb went on about my own experience in school when I realised that).

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 22:37

People do and would frequently see it as disrupting even if you don't think they do.

YY, this.

I think MN is quite bad for this sort of perspective. A lot of posters imagine that they're not personally homophobic, because they don't have moral objections to same-sex couples and they don't mind the idea of their children coming out (at an appropriate age, of course).

But they assume this means 1) they're quite happy to prop up systems that discriminate against homosexuals, if that discrimination is subtle enough and 2) they assume everyone else is just like them, and therefore, that homophobia doesn't exist.

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 22:39

Oh FGS.

I rephrase again.

School should not be about indoctrination.

Better?

OldCrone · 29/08/2019 22:48

I am so angry you think it's ok to say, high-handedly, that because you personally don't believe homophobia exists, therefore children of gay parents don't need any support, and it's all just fine.

I haven't said that, and I'm sorry you've interpreted it that way. My point is that lesbian and gay relationships should be taught about as just as boringly normal and ordinary as heterosexual ones. Because that is the standing in law, and the view of (I hope) most people. Which is why I don't view such relationships as 'disrupting', just ordinary. I don't know how I can make it any clearer, so I think that's going to be my last comment on this.

That doesn't mean that there is no homophobia, just as women having equal rights with men doesn't stop sexism, and people of all different ethnic groups being treated as equal under the law doesn't stop racism.

And I'm sorry that you have to put up with so many vile people in your day-to-day life.

OldCrone · 29/08/2019 22:49

School should not be about indoctrination.
I agree. But that was what it was originally for, so it's unlikely to change.

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 22:55

I can see you're trying to be kind, and I do appreciate that.

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 22:56

(And that's not meant to be patronising or passive-aggressive: I just feel lost for words, and it is late.)

Caplin · 29/08/2019 23:16

The feelings of any one child shouldn’t trump any other. That means for example a child born male who feels female should be allowed a safe space, away from boys if that is what they need. And that CHILD shouldn’t feel labelled as an abuser FFS!

Seriously, for all those anti trans peeps on here, I hope you have the experience of your kids growing up trans so you can start to understand all the crap and abuse they need to deal with.

🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈

Caplin · 29/08/2019 23:18

And yes, it should be taught in an age appropriate way early doors. There are kids age 5 identifying in a different gender, that has happened forever. Kids are more accepting at that age than we know, before we poison them.

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 29/08/2019 23:48

The feelings of any one child shouldn’t trump any other. That means for example a child born male who feels female should be allowed a safe space, away from boys if that is what they need.

Agreed that one child's needs doesnt trump any others'. So natal female children should have access to sex segregated facilities.

Caplin · 30/08/2019 00:03

Any child should have access to a private cubicle regardless of how they were born or identify. The fact is young kids all change together in a classroom anyway generally, so it isn’t really an issue until they get older. And primary kids hitting puberty should also be able to change away from prying eyes of their peers.

This anti trans shit is just depressing. Again, I just hope for every person saying trans kids should be segregated and ignored by the education system, that one of your kids in trans.

OldCrone · 30/08/2019 00:08

every person saying trans kids should be segregated and ignored by the education system

I don't think anyone's said that. Just that teaching children that they can choose their sex is abusive.

RosesAndRaindrops · 30/08/2019 00:24

I don't think anyone's said that. Just that teaching children that they can choose their sex is abusive*

I've definitely seen it said that there should be a third space (think it was this thread? even if not on this thread, that trans females should be segregated from non trans girls and kept with the boys - and it's definitely been said on this thread that trans shouldn't be taught in schools.

RosesAndRaindrops · 30/08/2019 00:24

Top sentence quoting, should be bold

OldCrone · 30/08/2019 00:31

trans females should be segregated from non trans girls and kept with the boys

What's your objection to sex segregation in changing rooms and toilets?

RosesAndRaindrops · 30/08/2019 00:34

I was replying to your "nobody's said that" quote - when they have.
I don't have an objection to male and female sex segregation in changing rooms and toilets, I just don't see why all trans by default should have to stay out.

OldCrone · 30/08/2019 00:38

I don't have an objection to male and female sex segregation in changing rooms and toilets, I just don't see why all trans by default should have to stay out.

Nobody's said trans people should have to stay out or be ignored by the education system. Everyone has a sex. In sex segregated areas trans people go with the people of the same sex.

it's definitely been said on this thread that trans shouldn't be taught in schools.

Nobody has said that children who identify as trans shouldn't be allowed to go to school like other children.

You're making stuff up roses.

Original poster
Toorahtoorahaye · 30/08/2019 00:40

Has anyone objected to a third space or actually said transgirls should be lumped in with boys when it comes to loos, toilets etc?

OP posts:
RosesAndRaindrops · 30/08/2019 00:44

What else is not wanting trans to be taught in school then if it's not to do with being ignored by the education system?
Surely not wanting it discussed in schools and exposed to children there is ignoring it?

RosesAndRaindrops · 30/08/2019 00:46

Cross post, for clarification see what I actually wrote.
Of course trans people can go to school, I never said otherwise.
Not making anything up, you're completely misreading my words.

Original poster
Toorahtoorahaye · 30/08/2019 00:46

Well that depends how it’s discussed. I don’t trust several charities already mention as they are biased, dishonest and have an agenda.

OP posts:
TheBigBallOfOil · 30/08/2019 06:29

“It’s definitely been said in this thread that trans shouldn’t be taught in schools”
Indeed it has, by me. Because current trans ideology is sexist, vicious, damaging rubbish. And those who believe it should be rammed down the throats of vulnerable kids like mine deserve and receive my utter contempt.
I think that’s clear enough. I have the power to prevent it, and I shall.