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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to know exactly what LGBT teaching in schools will entail?

560 replies

Toorahtoorahaye · 27/08/2019 22:59

There has been lots of attention around the push to teach LGBT issues in schools - Birmingham being the flash point with many parents protesting. AIBU to have doubts about what is going to be taught and to want to know which orgs will be providing the material and exactly what this material teaches?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
BanginChoons · 29/08/2019 20:11

So what exactly do you want for your trans child- how should the school handle it?

Perhaps a discussion about gender dysphoria and what that might mean to an individual person. That some people might feel like a boy, but everyone else views them as a girl, and how confusing that might feel, for example when sat boy/girl in a classroom, or when a boy keeps asking them to be their girlfriend, but he doesn't know they are a boy. (Or vice versa).

How it's ok to show compassion to someone who might dress differently to how we expect them to, or feel differently inside. That it's not very nice to repeatedly ask them what genitalia they have.

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:13

Trans doesn't equal abuser. I can't believe I even have to write that
You don’t because no one has said it

It's constantly implied though.

Bezalelle · 29/08/2019 20:13

I'm very pleased that children will be taught about LGBT issues in school so they can hear the facts from unbiased source

If it's Stonewall or Mermaids, it won't be unbiased.

BanginChoons · 29/08/2019 20:14

@Boshmama I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Quaffy · 29/08/2019 20:18

It's constantly implied though

Could you show me an example? Because I don’t think it is. I think that reading of the argument is spin to shut down discussion.

People tend to say either that men will exploit accommodations made for transgender people to access female spaces, or that transgender women offend against women at the same rate as men people and that a trans woman is therefore equally likely to pose a risk as a man.

Neither of those arguments even remotely suggests that trans = abuser.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/08/2019 20:27

Every single child deserves our care, love and compassion. Bangin no one would want your child to feel anything other than that. Thanks*
*
That does not make it right that my girl has to be in close proximity to a biological male when she's getting undressed. It's not just about predatory behaviour but mostly for her right now its ** dignity and boundaries.

I'll be honest I don't know what the solution is but it's not to take away sex segregated spaces.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/08/2019 20:29

Yup total bold fail there Smile

FamilyOfAliens · 29/08/2019 20:29

I'm the poster who says how the hell is it ok to stop doing LGBT education, which is vital, and the absence of which caused an awful lot of people to suffer under Section 28?

Oh yes, that’s right, you’re the poster who keeps trying to make this about Section 28. How did I miss that bit?

And I’m not aware that anyone on this thread has said they don’t think LGBT issues should be discussed as part of the SRE curriculum, have they?

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 20:36

How do we know that the men who said they were trans and committed abuse weren’t trans? Are trans people incapable of being abusers?
That really does make them very special - unique, in fact.

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 20:37

I'm not 'trying to make' it about Section 28.

It is about that. That is the relevant example of why these things are important.

I don't even know how to reply to you asking if anyone's said LGBT issues shouldn't be discussed. Have you read this thread?

If you agree LGBT issues should be discussed, and taught, then why the blazes are you attacking my posts when I have repeatedly explained why I think it is important to keep teaching them?

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:37

Oh yes, that’s right, you’re the poster who keeps trying to make this about Section 28. How did I miss that bit?
Maybe section 28 has been mentioned because it is the exact same attitude that parents didn't want gay relationships being taught in schools that is being displayed on here? It's parallel whether you can see it or not.

And I’m not aware that anyone on this thread has said they don’t think LGBT issues should be discussed as part of the SRE curriculum, have they?
Um, there are people saying that they don't want their children to be taught LGBT issues though Confused

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:37

Crossposted with SarahandQuack there

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:40

If you agree LGBT issues should be discussed, and taught, then why the blazes are you attacking my posts when I have repeatedly explained why I think it is important to keep teaching them?

I could be way off mark here, but I'm guessing as they don't see trans as the same and shouldn't be included. Which is why they can't see that people have been saying LGBT shouldn't be taught in schools Confused

Quaffy · 29/08/2019 20:41

roses could you show me how trans = abuser is being “constantly implied” please?

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 20:42

Perfectly happy for my kids to be taught about LGB. Not T. Especially not ds, who has asd, and as a very literal and concrete thinker, potentially could be really confused and distressed by it.
If that makes me a bigot, meh. Kids come before silly woke types and their opinions.

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:45

Perfectly happy for my kids to be taught about LGB. Not T.

Ah. Thought as much. That's what it boils down to, isn't it?
As I said, that's why people can't seem to see why section 28 and attitudes to that is completely relevant to the thread..

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 20:46

roses, I'm not sure I believe that, because there have been loads of opportunities on this thread for people to show they're not being homophobic. But, as ever, there have been lots of posters saying they don't like being called homophobic, but precious little interest in not being homophobic.

They'd rather throw out the whole thing and have no teaching whatsoever, just in case the teaching that takes place isn't 100% perfect. And - knowing, as I do, that quite a few posters on here aren't in LGBT families - I find that just appallingly selfish. How dare anyone sit in judgement saying 'ooh, we don't like some aspects of this teaching, so your children can't have any of it'?

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 20:47

Ok, and as I posted that one person has claimed to be happy with LGB but not T.

In a thread of nearly 300 messages, it's remarkable how that only came out just as we were questioning the idea, isn't it?

FamilyOfAliens · 29/08/2019 20:48

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Section 28 was about “not promoting” gay and lesbian relationship ships as valid. Of course we protested against it.

What Stonewall and Mermaids want is for schools to teach that gender identity is real, that everyone has one, and that well-established safeguarding procedures should be set aside when dealing with gender questioning children. Of course we’re going to protest against that.

OldCrone · 29/08/2019 20:49

Thanks for those definitions Roses.

Sex - your biological sex
Gender - more of your identity, inner self
Nobody's said they were the same.

The definition of sex we can agree on. Gender is a bit more difficult. My definition of gender is the cultural and social expectations placed on someone due to their sex. Your definition makes it sound like it's just personality.

According to my definition of gender, there is no reason why anyone in a country such as the UK should comply with those cultural and social expectations. We are free to behave and dress as we wish (so long as we don't do harm to others or break laws). And if we use your definition, what has someone's personality got to do with their sex?

Why do you feel that 'gender' should be given so much importance?

Wurzelsnewhead · 29/08/2019 20:49

Section 28 was solely about homophobia. Homophobia is about homosexuality. Homosexuality is not an identity, it is a fact the same as heterosexuality.
So let’s be clear ; it has absolutely nothing to do with the current trans ideology that promotes gender identity in place of biological sex.
Deliberately conflating the two is deceitful although admittedly a very effective ( and certainly well used) tactic to silence discussion.

Oh and I’m getting pretty tired of the ‘my child’ rhetoric too. Your child’s feelings about their identity do not trump my child’s right to privacy and dignity. The solution is for more unisex spaces to maintain the dignity of all kids (and adults).

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 20:50

Yes, I imagined you’d say something like that roses! As I said, meh. If you were a different sort of person, I might try and explain the potential for harm in genderism for people with asd. But no point! I’m free to make these decisions, and shall continue to do so.
And so will many, perhaps most parents.

SarahAndQuack · 29/08/2019 20:50

Protest against that, then!

But don't make it about objecting to LGBT education. Don't make it about ridiculous misinterpretations of queer theory (which is where I came into this thread). Don't make it about conspiracy theories dreamed up on the internet. Don't make it about whisper campaigns of 'I heard so and so said that this thing really happened so it must be true and everyone who disagrees with me must be part of The Conspiracy'.

RosesAndRaindrops · 29/08/2019 20:52

If you were a different sort of person

Meaning? Confused

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 20:52

What rubbish you do talk Sarah. I came late to the thread. I would have said precisely the same at the start.
Silly silly people