To find mumsnet so hostile to vegans?

[RebornFlame]

No based solely on but inspired by a couple of threads in the last few days. I’m not quite vegan yet but plan to be fully by the next few months and none of my friends, about quarter of whom at vegan are not sanctimonious or preachy at all.

Also please stop bashing vegan cakes! They’re yummy!!

I am just perplexed by not just a standard vegan starting this thread, but a not quite vegan but planning to be in the next few months. How much planning does it take?? And why does it take months (as opposed to weeks, days or even hours?)

I mean, unless you live in Arctic Greenland where imported veg is super expensive (but still available) and your enzymes have been adapted over centuries to deal best with consuming animal and fish proteins...

There really have been some crackers on this site off late...

No its just not.

I'm not a vegan, and I dont want a vegan pie for instance. I want to know whats in what I eat, same as anyone.

I wouldn't want reduced cal stuff, and so it's important people can tell the difference.

I don't want to live on protein replacements/highly processed foodstuffs and so its important I can see whether a product is a dairy product or an alternative.

I don't get this argument really.

If you want Halal meat for instance you need to know, and some would definitely not want Halal.

Yes, it is all 'just food', all of it, whether halal, vegan, veggie, but the categories certainly matter, either way.

You might not mind Bertrand whether all your food is meat substitute, or feel you need to know this, but when you have deficiencies of diet as a result and have to take supplements to rectify conditions as a results it might be apparent that its important.

“You might not mind Bertrand whether all your food is meat substitute, or feel you need to know this, but when you have deficiencies of diet as a result and have to take supplements to rectify conditions as a results it might be apparent that its important.”

But i’m not a vegan, so none of that will apply to me. If you were coming to dinner with me and another guest was a vegan, you would eat vegan food. I would see no need to tell you. Do you think I should?

Incidentally vegan is not a synonym for meat substitute.

I don’t generally care what people eat. My eyes do roll though at a friends daughter, who intermingles pictures of her ‘environmentally friendly ‘ vegan food, and memes about reducing plastic and saving the planet, with her holiday snaps from her constant long haul holidays all over the world...

In truth, my only issue with vegetarians/vegans is when they come for dinner, they expect you to adapt to their eating requirements (and what good host would not accommodate?) yet decline from doing the same in return, and basically force their eating habits on you. However, I have found that lots of vegetarian/vegan dishes are delicious, it's just the principle of the thing

“yet decline from doing the same in return, and basically force their eating habits on you”

This really is one of the stupidest arguments ever. “Why don’t vegetarians cook meat for me if I cook vegetarian food for them?”
Maybe just think about it for 30 seconds- you might be able to work it out all by yourself.

It only has to be named for people who can only eat that sort of food. For omnivores it’s just food

No, thats exactly the point I was disagreeing with you about.

So, another example might be someone underweight. Its important to know. It matters also if you want to avoid highly processed 'foods'.

These categories are important. We all know its all food, but they are very distinct categories of food, that's why I made the point, for the reasons I gave.

I dont want to be served a meat substitute without having been told that particular item on the menu isn't actually meat. Its important I know its a vegan product. How can it not be.

I think this is more about whats the norm. Here the norm is meat based, but that's now changing, you gotta roll with the times.

Meat eaters can't claim the vocab, it's necessarily changing to accommodate a changing demographic. The more equal the distribution of meat -v- vegan the more important this is.

To have a good quality balanced diet you do need to know whats in your food, so seeing something is vegan informs your choice, no matter who you are.

Same as it would matter that alchohol is clearly labelled as such, as is non-alcoholic looky-likey drinks, and low alcohol.

All about the informed choice.

Well, it had to be named on packaging and in restaurants of course, so people can make choices. But I see no reason why I should tell you that I am serving you vegan food. Why would I? You’re not going to have to take supplements because you’re eating vegan food for a weekend.

I am not a vegetarian or vegan but I will sometimes eat a meal that doesn’t include meat. If I am in a Muslim country I will only eat vegetarian as I won’t eat halal or kosher meat.
I have friends who are vegetarian and vegan and if I am invited to a meal then I know and eat vegetarian or vegan food.
But I am still a meat eater even though I enjoy a veggie curry and I don’t think there are many meat eaters who don’t eat some non meat meals.

I can totally see why it's wholly inappropriate to expect a vegan or vegetarian to work with animal products.

Two very different things preparing vegan/veg as to animal products. Unreasonable thinking they are the same.

What harm is there in hearing the views of vegans, the basis for their choice, understanding a growing sector of consumption? What harm is there in also expressing views of those who disagree with the basis for vegans diets, like the soya industry harm to the planet?

I would say to guests what I'd prepared and if meat-eating, probably ensure to include some meat as a matter of course.

Personally, it wouldn't affect me as a one-off, but I don't hold with processed products actually being exactly good for you.

I guess it would depend on the meal itself and who was at the table. Those choices do affect people and shouldn't be foisted upon others.

But I see no reason why I should tell you that I am serving you vegan food. Why would I?

I would prefer that you did, because without animal protein in a main meal I would be very likely to have blood sugar issues afterwards. I would want to know, so that I could bring a supplemental protein to balance the meal out. I appreciate that won’t apply to everybody, or even the majority, though.

“Personally, it wouldn't affect me as a one-off, but I don't hold with processed products actually being exactly good for you.“
Why are you assuming processed
food?

I think unless you tell your host you have specific dietary needs that might cause you issues, there's no reason to expect them to tell you the food they're cooking doesn't have meat or dairy in it. Hosts don't tell you when they fill their food with cream or butter or cook with wine either. If you have no specific issues you accept that something someone else is cooking might not necessarily be what you would consider a healthy meal. You don't expect a list of ingredients.

If i’m cooking, I ask about dietary requirements, then cook to the most restricted. I might have a jug of sauce or some cream, or ice cream as well as sorbet. But I see no reason to cook more than one sort of food. I’ll tell the people with restricted diets in advance that the food is OK for them, but i wouldn’t tell omnivores. Why would I?

What if you were a Vegan who voted leave ?

“What if you were a Vegan who voted leave ”

I’d definitely sabotage her dinner.....

I’m vegan and honestly I don’t even talk about it with people who aren’t. I would never ever expect people to cater for me, I always bring for e.g my own snack if I’m going to my friends for a cuppa and would not expect them to provide me with soya milk. Honestly none of my friends who are vegan are like this. People at work do talk with hostility about vegans, also cyclists, environment campaigners and I just don’t get it. Surely people should be encouraged to take steps to be more eco friendly with a climate crisis on our hands. That being said I never air these views around the angry people at my work!

@Tolleshunt the vegan diet is very high in protein!

I agree that it can be, notcool, however plant protein just doesn’t have the same impact on my blood sugar as dairy or meat. I’ve tried lots, but no dice.

Fair enough, very useful to know this information.

I find a lot of vegans incredibly hostile. Not all obviously but the amount of abuse people get, not just on here, but on any forum for giving a comment against it is unbelievable.

@brighteyeowl17

"For giving comment against it" - ie returning debate with people who have deliberately approached them for debate?

That's very different to being hostile to people that haven't brought the subject up.

I think there is an invented vegan caricature, in real life I know at least ten people following a vegan diet and none are preachy or hostile. Same with cyclists, people claiming “they think they are above the law” or environment campaigners are all hypocrites taking ten long haul flights a year. I wish there was more kindness towards our fellow humans

Notcool I think there is an invented vegan caricature, in real life I know at least ten people following a vegan diet and none are preachy or hostile.

No, I really do know a vegan who posts on photos of his dinner and lunch on FB frequently with hashtags about vegan eating. And he looks wrinkled and really old for his years.

I also have vegan (when it suits) friends who are totally food obsessed and spend a lot of time talking about it, planning it and buying it. Though obviously its not just vegans who are like this! I really wouldn't like to be that obsessed about anything though.