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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find mumsnet so hostile to vegans?

348 replies

RebornFlame · 27/08/2019 17:19

No based solely on but inspired by a couple of threads in the last few days. I’m not quite vegan yet but plan to be fully by the next few months and none of my friends, about quarter of whom at vegan are not sanctimonious or preachy at all.

Also please stop bashing vegan cakes! They’re yummy!!

OP posts:
Chillisauceboss · 31/08/2019 12:14

You could have a healthy plate including meat and eggs. I provide a healthy plate without it @formerbabe

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:16

@QualCheckBot

Personally, I would not that there is proof that a vegan diet is inherently healthier than a omnivorous diet. I think that there are healthy versions of most diets and also those at the other extreme.

But people seem comfortable saying that a vegan is inherently unhealthy.

My DS won't eat anything green but I am not urged by anyone to check his vitamin levels all the time but if I was raising him vegan, I know a lot of people who would be asking about B12 etc.

BertrandRussell · 31/08/2019 12:18

“So the meal would be nutritionally poorer by adding an egg to it? Is that what you're saying?”

No. That is not what she is saying. Hmm

QualCheckBot · 31/08/2019 12:20

MaximusHeadroom Personally, I would not that there is proof that a vegan diet is inherently healthier than a omnivorous diet. I think that there are healthy versions of most diets and also those at the other extreme. But people seem comfortable saying that a vegan is inherently unhealthy.

Well, that's not what I was saying, and I'm not wishing to put you on the spot. But it is a fact that the DNA variation between humans means that the proteins produced by your DNA differ between individuals and even between populations and that some people will thrive on a vegan diet while others will deteriorate.

Underdone · 31/08/2019 12:21

The argument around breast milk is actually a good one for proving that we don't need cow's milk.

As mammals, we all provide milk for our babies. But once they are no longer babies we no longer need to give them breast milk. Cow's milk is for baby cow's in the same way a human's milk is designed for human babies. Designed perfectly and in tune with each baby's needs.

It is an assault on motherhood to artificially impregnate and then remove the baby at birth.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 31/08/2019 12:22

Are you against formula for babies @formerbabe?

Underdone · 31/08/2019 12:23

Cows not cow's!! Aargh.

formerbabe · 31/08/2019 12:25

Are you against formula for babies @formerbabe**

No, why would you think I was?

HugsAreMyDrugs · 31/08/2019 12:31

Because you're arguing that veganism is unnatural and that babies and children need animal products.

But formula is not a natural product either. It's is processed and fortified to mimic breast milk. It's not a leap to assume that if you're all about keeping things natural that you would be anti formula as well. And the fact that formula has to be fortified in order to make it safe for babies would actually prove the opposite and that babies don't need animal products.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 31/08/2019 12:33

And no, your own breast milk does not count as an animal product. Humans are mammals and we produce milk for our babies.

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:34

@QualCheckBot

Feel free to put me on the spot. Grin

I have not sufficiently read into the DNA diet studies to disagree. But I would say that by your own argument, surely there are significant numbers of people who would be far better off on a vegan diet if they have a genetic predisposition against digesting animal products or for building up cholesterol from eating animal products?

Again, my argument has never been that people should be pressured into being vegan. Merely that people shouldn't be berated for following a vegan diet if they and their families are healthy and happy on it.

formerbabe · 31/08/2019 12:36

Because you're arguing that veganism is unnatural and that babies and children need animal products

Correct but why would that make me against formula? Confused Yes, formula is not a 'natural' product and breastmilk is preferable to formula but formula is preferable to starving.

Modern medicine isn't natural and I'm not against that either.

What an odd argument you have.

Chillisauceboss · 31/08/2019 12:38

@formerbabe 'if it was so great you wouldn't have to supplement' formula is supplemented. Still think it's great?

For what it's worth I think formula is crucial for so many reasons and I'm glad it exists

vivaldisboots · 31/08/2019 12:40

I don’t like people telling me what they eat. It’s very annoying. I have also had vegans tell me there’s antibiotics in milk so I shouldn’t give it to my dc blah blah blah. It’s hits nerves that don’t just get dropped in an instant.
I hope I’m not particularly hostile but I am beginning to tire of the constant guilt tripping some vegans use to stop people eating meat or animal produce etc.
I also truly believe that these same vegans are putting more pressure on the nhs because they are not eating well in the long term through ignorance of what damage their diet is doing to their bodies. And yes I’ve heard the whole ‘it is possible to get all nutrients from a vegan diet’ but I still believe the majority are failing to do this.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 31/08/2019 12:41

But if babies need animal products to live then formula wouldn't need to be adjusted in order to make it safe for them.

Modern medicine isn't natural and I'm not against that either.

Yet your against veganism because it's unnatural 🤔

Do you have a cut off point on unnatural products that you find acceptable and which ones you don't?

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:41

@formerbabe
With all your food research, and concern about healthy choices, have you stopped giving your children sausages, ham and bacon now the WHO has put them in the same carcinogenic category as cigarettes?

formerbabe · 31/08/2019 12:41

I really don't know why you keep going on about formula milk.

@formerbabe 'if it was so great you wouldn't have to supplement' formula is supplemented. Still think it's great?

What do you mean, "still think it's great" when did I say its great? I have no strong feelings on formula.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 31/08/2019 12:43

So is supplementing acceptable or is it not? You can't have it both ways.

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:44

@vivaldisboots
Your problem is not that you know vegans. It is that you know some vegans who are twats. I have a lot of vegan friends who never put any pressure on me before I went vegan and who would not think less of me if I decided that I wanted to go back to eating meat or dairy.

We all know twats. Just for some reason when they are vegans and twats we put it down to their diet and not their inherently awful personality.

formerbabe · 31/08/2019 12:45

With all your food research, and concern about healthy choices, have you stopped giving your children sausages, ham and bacon now the WHO has put them in the same carcinogenic category as cigarettes?

I'm well aware of that. My dd only eats ham sandwiches and will refuse anything else. I'm aware it's not ideal. I don't profess to say it's the healthiest choice. I don't understand why if I'm able to recognise my dds diet probably isn't perfect, that vegan parents can't concede their child's diet isn't perfect.

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:46

@HugsAreMyDrugs

Since breastfeeding mothers are now told to supplement with vitamin D, surely breastfeeding isn't natural either. If it was what nature intended, we wouldn't need to supplement. Isn't that right?

What newborns need is a nice steak and cheese sandwich...

formerbabe · 31/08/2019 12:48

@HugsAreMyDrugs

So is supplementing acceptable or is it not? You can't have it both ways

It's not about whether it's acceptable or not.

If a diet is perfect, it wouldn't need supplements. Hence a vegan diet isn't perfect. I'm not saying its wrong to supplement, just admit that the fact you have to shows its not ideal.

QualCheckBot · 31/08/2019 12:51

MaximusHeadroom I have not sufficiently read into the DNA diet studies to disagree. But I would say that by your own argument, surely there are significant numbers of people who would be far better off on a vegan diet if they have a genetic predisposition against digesting animal products or for building up cholesterol from eating animal products?

Yes, quite possibly.

I guess until a test is devised to check for which proteins you have inherited and how they correlate to absorbing certain nutrients from certain foods, the only way to find out is to try veganism and see if you deteriorate!

For those interested, this article studied the issue in the Inuit.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150917160034.htm

"Researchers have found unique genetic mutations in the Inuit genome that make them more adapted to cold as well as a diet high in omega-3 fatty acids, with the side effect of shorter height. This is the first evidence human populations have adapted to particular diets and differ in their physiological response. "

For those of us concerned about animal welfare but unable to thrive on a vegan diet, we can still support the issue by campaigning for less inhumane slaughterhouse conditions, better (and shorter) live transportation to slaughter, etc..

Chillisauceboss · 31/08/2019 12:51

@formerbabe saying vegan isn't ideal implies another diet is idea - but that omni diet also involves supplements. So neither are perfect and I'm happy for people to choose which ones they want

MaximusHeadroom · 31/08/2019 12:52

I also truly believe that these same vegans are putting more pressure on the nhs because they are not eating well in the long term through ignorance of what damage their diet is doing to their bodies

Where on earth do you get your stats to get this idea?!!

Seeing as obesity and diabetes are 2 of the biggest strains on the NHS and both are far less prevalent in vegans than in meat eaters.

Again, nobody is under any pressure to be vegan or want to be vegan but some of the arguments against here are seriously mind-blowing Confused