To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

No nurseries here, council or private would allow 1 day and rightly so.

Of course he isn’t settling in!

My daughters nursery is fantastic, lovely caring staff, loads of activities, everyone included, my daughter loves going, she started at 8m old, now 3 and does 5 full days

I don't think the nursery is failing your child, i think you are. You are moaning about the provision but not searching for a better alternative. How is that good parenting? Your poor child.

So you don't like Nurseries or childminders & you're not that keen on Nannies. What's your family like at childcare?! Asking for a friend. And please don't tell me that's the answer. I know plenty of people that do childcare for their families who I wouldn't trust with a pot plant.

Standards do vary wildly I agree, a lot of it is to do with funding sadly.
I don’t recognise the ‘bored teenagers’ stereotype at all at DSs nursery, I’m rubbish at guessing ages but I’d say most of the staff are in their 30s. with a few ‘grandma’ age ladies. We even have a man!

YABU

I have 3 children who have gone through full time nursery, one child still has until next September there. They all loved it and DC2 asks to go back.

I have seen our nursery take them to parks, feeding ducks , one nursery even has an allotment and I have heard them chatting with the children.

It could be a debate worth having, OP, but I don’t think you’re the person I want to debate it with. Because you are extrapolating wildly on your extremely limited and, in one case, very out of date experience. And I’m not debating with someone who doesn’t understand that very limited anecdote doesn’t equal data.

I don't trust childminders at all- having been sent to one as a child. She was a nasty piece of work who I wouldn't acknowledge in the street even now.

*I think we need tighter regulation on it all^

There is MUCH tighter regulation already!

When you were a child, any old person could call themselves a CM and look after kids in their own home.

Now, they need to be trained and then approved and inspected by OFSTED.

There are some amazing CMs and nurseries around.

I don't need to send my DC to a CM at the moment as I'm working school hours, but they still go to their CM once a week as they have such a lovely time, and are part of a community with the other DC who go there. They'd be sad if I pulled them out entirely. Their CM is wonderful, and her home provides something similar to a (functional!) large family environment in terms of the relationships they have with other DC there. They learn a lot there.

There is a conversation to be had about childcare in the UK and how the current situation doesn't really support families or children as well as it could, and also about how to encourage excellence in childcare.

Starting off by tarring all nurseries and CMs with the same brush is not really the best way to start a productive conversation on this, though.

It could be a debate worth having, OP, but I don’t think you’re the person I want to debate it with. Because you are extrapolating wildly on your extremely limited and, in one case, very out of date experience. And I’m not debating with someone who doesn’t understand that very limited anecdote doesn’t equal data

This.

Thing is, lots of us have no choice but to use a nursery.

For me, it's this one or the one we moved him from. I'd love to get more involved with the running of the place- I can't because that is in the evenings and I have no childcare.

As for the comment about dating putting your career before your kids....

How dare a woman want to have a career? I mean never mind that nothing like ,this is asked of men or that said woman will be asked to stand up on her two feet, providing for said children of she gets divorced.
You cant have it all and expect women/mothers to BOTH be fully independent financially, able to provide for her dcs etc... which means having a career AND AT THE SAME TIME, asking mothers to not work so the dcs isn’t sent to nursery,, she can be there for them all the time etc....

Personally, as there are no decent research showing nurseries are detrimental to children, I will chose career and the ability to provide for my dcs if need be (poverty has never been good for teenagers MH either....)

and my own shit childminder as a kid.'
Childminding never used to be regulated, that's now all changed so I think it's unfair to tar them all with the same brush

Actually, a huge proportion of psychology is based on what people would call anecdata...

My mum was a SAHM and to be honest, I think I was a little damaged by having to go to school, at 4, when I’d had no experience before that of ever being apart from her. It turned me into a very anxious child who missed her mum constantly when at school. Another reason I sent my son to nursery was so that he would learn a little more self-reliance than I ever learned, with the hope of avoiding him being as miserable at school as I was.

A long time ago, as DC is now 20, I opted for one to one nanny care, and sometimes/often nanny brought her child who was then 18m. It was brilliant. I travelled worldwide on business and worked irregular hours, but nanny had second child and it stopped working. Then we had a bonkers "nanny" who was also unreliable, and I booked an agency nanny on line for a few days to cover a crisis. DC and nanny got along famously so I fired bonkers nanny (incurring the wrath of the employment people) and hired agency nanny who stayed until DC was 4. Then she was picked and went to work for another family with a new baby that she had met at the school gate, for several years. She was superb, and went to all the baby groups, pony club, swimming, etc as if she was his mum. So I was old (44) mummy and she was young (23) mummy. But we didn't have much in the way of nursery options locally, so it had to be arranged privately. In those days, it was no more expensive, even inflation adjusted, than childcare in a decent nursery is now. For holiday cover, I employed a student teacher, back with her family, taking early years curriculum, so she could use it as professional experience.

DD loved nursery. Begged to go on days she didn’t attend. Cried at pickup sometimes.

Don’t tar them all with the same brush.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

Almost all Scandinavian children attend nursery, usually from quite an early age. Last time I checked, there was no "epidemic of adolescent mental health problems" in that part of the world. In fact, Scandinavian societies are among the most cohesive and succesful on earth.

So yes, yabu.

You’re annoyingly negative. You keep batting back suggestions based on the fact that the childcare you have seen and experienced have not engaged with the child all the time. In reality you have got a snapshot of nursery workers taking kids out and chatting to each other; a nanny on her phone; a childminder because you can’t see what she is doing all day. That’s all it is - a snapshot! You can’t decide all childcare is crap based on that. Not even the most doting mother in the world will be able to engage with her child 100 percent of the time.

As you seem to be so pessimistic, dogmatic and damn right obtuse about the whole thing how about giving up your job and raising your child yourself rather than relying on others to do it for you? You have a choice but for some reason you aren’t willing to do that.

I really pity your child’s teacher when he starts school.

I think you are correct and the happy parent happy child thing is nonsense unfortunately if your child is in nursery say 8 to 5 everyday .someone else is doing more of your child rearing than you and personally I don't think it's a great thing
My mother worked full time and I was in nursery I used to wait on my grandma coming everyday to pick me after her work and was so glad to see the poor woman I can still mind the feeling and I hated it to such an extent and probably the nursery was only something like 9-4 in those days.
Being away from your primary carer 5 days a week especially lo ng days is not good no matter how we try to kid ourselves it's fine

“Standards do vary wildly I agree, a lot of it is to do with funding sadly.”

Can I ask what funding you mean @Camomila? I didn’t think nurseries were funded until 3. I pay over a grand a month for mine

Nurseries aren’t new - plenty of children who went to settings that looks exactly like those available now are adolescent to adult. So this is a question we can/could answer. Have you tried finding out if there is any peer reviewed research on the subject? (Here’s a hint - as a pair of working scientists (working for the joy not the money and still not choosing to spend 24/7 with our children ) we did have a look at the research base)

It's truly shit situation

Yeah having free childcare for most of the week is a really ‘shit situation’. Poor you OP.

But that’s only for 4/5 years @aprilanne so how can someone else be doing the bulk of the child rearing? It takes 18 years to raise a child. You’re talking about 50 hours out of 168 a week for 4/5 years out of 18

Nothing anyone suggests is good enough for you, is it OP? Trying a different nursery, trying two days to get your DC more settled, a childminder. No, no, and triple no.

I'm not trying to make other people feel bad- I'm raising something that many don't want to think about. It's scary and horrible- so shoot the messenger, obviously.

You sound pretty paranoid, tbh.

As nothing and no one is going to ever satisfy you I suggest you care for your DC full time. And no need to worry yourself about other people's arrangements. They're doing what seems best for them and their DC.

Interesting to see that some people agree with me.

Others, are simply horrified that I've even suggested it.