To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

I agree OP and there is evidence to suggest we are right, it does caution not to worry to much though.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/02/nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

It’s such an emotive subject though so very difficult to talk about since any comment can appear as a personal attack on someone’s parenting. I think if we could reframe the discussion around how childcare can be more evenly distributed in families, how business can help facilitate flexible working, how parents can take time out to care for young children without it impacting their career long term and how small scale childcare settings can run (childminding is difficult to do these days that caring people who might be fantastic minders are put off by burdensome admin and regulations) that might loosen the need for large scale nursery provision.

Of course no government is going to support that though as the need for all citizen to be full time productive contributors to the economy at all times rules!

Another who has 3 now grown up case studies who are lovely well rounded adults ( with a side order of perfectionism but that’s inherited from me !)
Try another nursery or childminder ( my 20yr old youngest went for dinner with her ex childminder yesterday )

Nothing in that article suggests childcare is a contributing factor.

Well I've had to send my ds since age 2 and a half he's been full time. It's been hard but the alternative would have been subjecting him to a shitty relationship and no money. Now he has a professional mum who looks after the whole family, and can provide food clothing and pay bills. It's hard not to loose your shit sometimes with a feisty toddler, so perhaps better for them sometimes to have variety in their lives.

If the staff aren't engaging with the children I wouldn't be happy at all, it's a major part of their job and just as important as feeding and changing them. Perhaps because your ds only goes one day a week he has never really settled in properly. Having said that I personally don't believe that having lots of kids in together with a small number of adults is ideal, it does feel institutionalized and not at all homely but at the moment it's what is on offer and I don't believe it's actually harmful. Childminders can be a wonderful option but of course some are crap, same with nannies. It's difficult op, no doubt about it.

This is why mine went to a child minder. I hated the institutionalisation of nursery that is purely for childcare. She went half a day to local council one and liked it but it was vsmall and had some lovely people there not just youngsters being paid min wage etc

Look at the amount of people that struggle with the most basic day to day interactions

I dont think you can blame that on childcare. The children at my childs nursery (inc my child!) Are the most confident happy friendly kids. They all speak to me despite me being pretty much a stranger.

In fact id say the opposite. Children (like me!) Who didnt go to childcare until school are usually less confident and more socially awkward.

Those people telling me to fuck off or that I'm just being goady.

All I'm suggesting is that standards need to improve- is that so terrible or am I hitting a nerve?

No by a million to all of the people talking about 'institutional childcare.' My dses that were in creche were happy to go in, sad coming out ( most days!) And always happy to see or be around the staff. They came home with art and when they were a bit older, gushed about everything they'd done each day (planting and making things outside, sand and water play and so many masks and hand prints!) You say this is a discussion that needs to be had- it is- to show working parents when they have the right childcare they needn't feel guilty. I'm a stay at home mum and I struggle to provide that level of stimulation- because you can't give the full amt of time and they don't always have the others around. You said you started this thread because it needed to be said, did you not mean because you felt bad about your child being in nursery? I do think this is a trolling thread, which is a pity,people need to be shown th a t their kids can be happy and content in the right setting. If you are not a troll, I'm sorry, but also definitely change your nursery, there's vivid places out there that will chat to and stimulate and be there for your child.

Genuine question here OP.

What do you want childcare to look like?

You don't like nurseries because the staff seem miserable. That could be because it's not the highest paid job. So better staff would cost a lot more - which is problematic because childcare in the UK already costs a lot, and higher costs will have the knock on effect of reducing the number of women who feel they can work.

You don't like childminders because you're worried about the lack of supervision. But more staff, so more supervision, is a nursery.

Family care is unreliable as it is unpaid, puts a lot of pressure on grandparents, and not everyone has either family nearby or nice family.

Honestly, what would you actually like?

@Venger

No, it suggests that the exact cause isn't known and that it's probably down to a number of unknown factors.

Your literal approach does not work in this context.

Sure the standard in shit nurseries need to improve. That doesnt mean all nurseries are shit. I couldn't suggest anything to improve the nursery we use. Its great.

And all those posters who have made constructive suggestions regarding your own situation?

All they’re suggesting is that you could quite easily improve your child’s experience of the week by looking closer to home before criticising an entire system.

Or are they hitting a nerve?

OP you’re asking us nursery using parents to take a good long look at ourselves and find ourselves lacking, so I was wondering if you could do the same and explain something?

-Why is your child in 2 different settings?

-Why do you think your relatives are well placed to look after your child when presumably they have no educational or child care experience? What about pre school, will you acknowledge that your child is better off with professionals then?

-Finally, do you feel you’re in touch with the personality of the child you have? We chose childcare based on our child’s personality (which includes different childcare for different children if required) based on how they developed at the setting and what would suit their personality best, rather than what suits us best.
Have you considered any of this with your child? Because it seems strange to keep him in an Unsuitable environment.

Oh and in terms of wanting to work to keep us in a life of luxury, well I’ve asked my husband lots of times whether he would like to give up work and stay at home but he doesn’t want to.

Yours won’t be a popular view because people all want expensive holidays ,expensive area housing ,the new I phone ,i pad ...All this requires 2 salaries and for both parents to work ,people need nurseries. People expect so much more now ,possession wise .it will only get worse

I was a single mum with no ipad, pish gouse etc... i did feed clothe and house my kids. Way to generalise though

No, it suggests that the exact cause isn't known and that it's probably down to a number of unknown factors. Your literal approach does not work in this context.

Your own OP suggests that the use of childcare is going to lead to an epidemic of mental health problems in years to come but you can't provide a single shred of evidence to back up this goady claim.

I agree, OP. There is actually quite a bit of research showing that nursery care is stressful for young children and can result in many negative psychological and behavioural issues. I have some of it stashed away somewhere and it is one of the reasons I decided not to put mine in nursery (they are now grown up).

However, I don't think it is necessarily as simple as that. Looking at what some other posters have said I wonder if it might also depend on the personality of the child, their age (of course), and obviously the number of hours they are in nursery.

I do think there is a debate to be had, but this is frequently shut down by denial, maybe due to the associated problem that so many couples need to work full time in order to keep their heads above water financially, and also of course, the continuing issues of womens' careers and both sexes expectations and work -life balance.

What do you mean it’s scary and horrible and don’t shoot the messenger? This implies that childcare definitely causes mental health problems. Do you have anything at all to back that up? Childcare in some form,has been around various countries for literally centuries. Social media, broken down relationships, abuse in the home all cause mental health problems in teenagers and there are a significant amount of studies saying this.

I agree and find it strange that not many people see (or are willing to admit that they see?) a link between the rise in MH problems and a lack of attachment to a single or small number of primary caregivers in the early years.

Don’t you think this rise in mental health issues could be linked to the effect of social media on teens, the bombardment of perfection, having to keep up an impossible life of always looking good, being in the right place at the right time, with the right people. Not to mention online bullies, groomers, harassers, trolls and stalkers. Not to mention peer pressure around sex, drugs, drink being on the rise. But yeah let’s blame it on the nursery nurse who isn’t hanging off little Johny’s every word. Utterly ridiculous

a lack of attachment to a single or small number of primary caregivers in the early years

A lack of attachment is not caused by using childcare. Hth.

@aliteralAIBUforonce, my dcs are teens now.
They both went to nursery from 4~5minths old, when I went back to work.
The nursery staff WAS interacting with them and they were both very happy to go there. Actually, I tried to change nursery (long story) and quickly went back to the original one because the new one was clearly nit as good.

They are both teenagers now. Well adjusted, no MH issues, no problems growing up.

So my take is that your worries about the effects of nursery have more to do with YOUR perception to nursery and the fact the one you are using is crap.

We need higher standards or better ways to combine work and parenting.
So what is your suggestion?

It’s a debate that’s been done time and time again though isn’t it? Some people don’t like nurseries. Fine. Don’t use them. Some people do. Cracking. Use them. There, debate done.

My DD’s nursery is excellent. She loves it, is excited to go and is put out off we turn up early and she’s in the middle of something with her friends. The staff are lovely and she often talks about them. She’s a happy bright 2 year old and I certainly don’t think she’s being set up for a future mental health crisis.

There are children for whom the opposite would be true. Different personalities who don’t thrive in a nursery setting. Maybe continuing to send a child who isn’t settling in could be detrimental to their mental health and the best idea might be to stop using the nursery? Or consider ways of helping them settle, e.g not only sending them once a week.

I’m sure there are bad nurseries, and yes, again maybe that could lead to mental health problems in the future. But so can bad childminders, bad grandparents, bad SAHPs.

There are growing problems with poor mental health in kids, but I personally suspect (have not looked into any scientific evidence in this recently although have in the past) that we need to look at issues such as social media before we blame nurseries.

Sorry your child isn’t settling and you don’t have access to a good nursery, although seeing as you don’t trust childminders either you do seem to be narrowing your options. At least you’re lucky to have family to help. Many of us aren’t.

I’m not convinced by your motives in starting this thread. I’d usually expect a concerned parent to ask for suggestions to improve things, but maybe you just needed a rant. Please, if the nursery isn’t working out for you, stop using it. But don’t imply the rest of us who continue to use them are damaging our children.

Yes it does @Venger, it is a suggestion. It is not a conclusion based on research and did not claim to be.

That does mean it cannot possibly be true, which having a solid grounding in Popper etc, you will know.