To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

If you hate both nurseries and choldminders so much, you will have to give up your job, surely. There aren't any other options besides Nannies or Au Pairs. If you can afford that, crack on. If not you have two choices unfortunately the 'shit care' you've mentioned, or being a SAHM.

Oh fuck off

There is a difference in the way children behave with adults if they are in nursery care for long hours. It’s something I have definitely noticed with our full timers from babies.

Whether it is a good or bad different is up for debate but I do think there should be some changes to childcare provision for those doing long days and that starts with the government seeing it as a priority for funding and for those working in childcare to be seen as professionals rather than barely earning min wage for all their qualifications.

Given that you have made an incredibly sweeping (and frankly, goady) statement of causality based on a grand sample size of one, I think that comment on your own childcare arrangements is perfectly reasonable.

@aqua00

That is a ridicoulously sweeping statement and very offensive to those of us who work in Early Years Childcare and cherish and care for other people's children as we would our own

Oh we get those 'reports' too. They're bollox.

"He's done this thing (that he has been able to do for months) and I (the key worker) will work on doing this other thing (that he's also been able to do for months)"

Pointless.

You don't seem to be having a debate though. And I think you could benefit from listening to some of the suggestions you've been given .

I wouldn't use nursery for my children. I feel there is no substitute for the love of family. Although women have always worked, family childcare was used. Child minders would be an acceptable alternative for me if I had no choice as they can build a loving one to one relationship with a child. That's just the way I feel.

I have NO family that could do it for me. They all work or live too far away.

I am not a Stepford Wife - I am a teacher of 11 years who has a good pension and shock horror actually enjoys working. I need that time - I need to feel like me. I adore my son and he gets my everything but I also enjoy working. I like going and he is happy with his CM.

Just because I’m a woman and a mother does not mean that’s all I am!

I disagree. There are plenty of parents who contribute to mental health problems of their kids. See stately homes threads here. There are parents who ignore their kids when out and about, who sit chatting to their mates, don’t engage, on their phones, spend all day doing housework and not playing. In very extreme home life examples kids are shouted, sworn at, physically and mentally neglected. I should imagine nursery is a refuge for those children. I’ve seen staff chatting away to their nursery charges whilst walking along, I’ve seen lots of positive and encouraging development of childcare over the years. Some nurseries are shit others are fantastic. Some parents are shit others are fantastic

aqua00 that’s quite a broad claim, you don’t know the ins and outs of the care they give - it’s quite bold to make such a damning assessment of how the kids are treated from seeing them in a park ever so often

@Pamplemousecat

Well said

Sounds like your child isn't in a great nursery... from this you have extrapolated a whole generation WOW that's a bit of a leap.

My DSs both have got on well with nursery, one is now 11 (he went full time from 9mth to 4yrs) the other is 3 and still at nursery but goes 3 full days as our circumstances have changed -
They both had days where they didn't love it but the vast majority of the time they do. DS2 will ask to go to nursery when he has his days with me.
However both of their nurseries have been great, with lovely staff, who were great with the kids. They have had a lovely varied time and made loads of friends. Don't regret sending either of them.
For a bit of perspective; My baby brother (he's now 30) went to nursery full time when he was a baby (the only one of my siblings) and as far as I can tell it didn't cause any issues (in fact he's pretty awesome)

I've only seen one nanny in action (to my knowledge) and she spent a lot of time on her phone.

My sample is based on two nurseries my son has attended. Those I have witnessed taking kids out (at least three) and my own shit childminder as a kid.

Has there been a rise in mental health problems? Is that anecdotal or do you have some evidence for that? Or is it just that more people are getting help for things that have always been problems? Or just that thanks to the 24 hour news cycle more stuff is being reported? And even if there has been a rise, can that be attributed to childcare alone? It seems a reach to me.

So based on 2 nurseries you think all nurseries are shit? Right.

What I'm saying- is that things need to improve. We need higher standards or better ways to combine work and parenting.

Tbh I doubt it’ll help that he’s only in one day a week, though obviously I can see why you’d prefer him to be with family.

DS goes to an excellent preschool and loves it. The staff have a low rate of turnover and seem really engaged with the children. Not all of us are lucky enough to have family nearby and sadly if we want to pay our mortgage, we have to work. And I have a career and a pension that I don’t especially want to lose - I might feel differently about five years out of the workforce if I had a NMW job. Children all over the world, for hundreds of years, have been in some kind of childcare or another, it’s not like this is a modern phenomenon.

And one CM at least 30 (?) years ago don't forget Bonjour.

aqua00 yes, what this already goady thread needed was a good sprinkling of racial stereotyping, ageism and xenophobia. Well done.

There has been a rise in mental health problems over the last thirty years or so.

"Mental health problems" covers a very broad range of illnesses.

Please do expand on which specific problems you believe are caused by childcare and then please provide some evidence that backs up this claim.

A childminder is alone with the child- no supervision or transparency at all. A good childminder can be wonderful but a bad one is a fucking nightmare

Then don't choose a terrible childminder!

I avoided the one who lives close to me who is grumpy with the kids and leaves them strapped in buggies for ages. I went with one further away who I'd seen several times per week at baby groups or on the school run for years, who was always kind and loving to the kids, who had looked after freinds' kids and came with glowing personal recommendations from people I trusted. She's been amazing - really receptive to info about my child's autism, and has modified things to fit with him. He has a ball with her.

Don't blame the system because you've ended up with poor childcare.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

I think we're already seeing it, and have been for some time.

Look at the amount of people that struggle with the most basic day to day interactions.

Yes, mental health problems are on the rise:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-41125009

So you spent the whole day with them and observed closely what was done yes?