To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

* had put

• closed down by ofsted

@KeepStill - I just spat out my tea.

Oh and she is attending church for the sole purpose of ensuring her DS is admitted to the best school

I'm a SAHM because in part i thought it would be more beneficial for my DS and because circumstances made it an easier choice. But my DS is intense, a very poor sleeper and he has a speech delay. I felt I needed a break and I read that speech was often improved by nursery from 2 years. So I put him
Into a preschool that takes from 2 year to school age. Only 2 sessions a week so a total of 6 hours weekly. Great experiences, it certainly looks like they do a big variety of things. Good ofsted. Newish facility. But he struggled with the separation. He would go in very happily, but want to go after 2 hours, when the session
is 3 hours. He would cry or stand by the gate . And course we had to pay, whilst I was at home. It did not improve his speech, in-fact they didn't actually believe he could talk at all. He wouldn't speak there to adults or children, but would happily join in and lead them by the hand to show them things etc. So it's been conflicting for me. We have limited friends and no other children in the family, so not much exposure to peers. Anyway trying somewhere new this September for a few hours now he's turned 3.

Having been to many toddler groups as a SAHM I'd say most people at those are childminders ( or second child mat leavers) . The childminders are certainly not displaying interaction or love for their mindees. I've actually seen some horrible treatment. One I know was staying she got excellent on her last Ofsted. I see that particular minder in a local supermarket car park every Wednesday, it's near the school she drops at and it's literally an hour after school time. She parks her mini van next to another minder and they chat with the kids in the back. I know she has little ones in there. It's a long time to be in vehicle. She is a very charismatic, confident person and I can see why people choose her, but I am not sure about the work ethics of many childminders and how do you know what they really do ?

Have you considered that your child's reaction to nursery is a reflection of your own mistrust of non family childcare?
When my daughter turned 1, my mother became very unwell and so I had to change from grandparent care 3 days per week (as I work P/T) and look for alternative childcare. I tried a nursery but she did not settle at all (with hindsight not a coincidence that I had my own reservations about nursery at this young age). I also wasn't sure about CMs for some of the reasons you describe - not able to monitor etc but SO glad I ventured out and found the most amazing CM to look after my daughter who has absolutely thrived under her care and so has her younger brother. She is attentive, warm, loving and nurturing and my children adore her and love going there. It has undoubtedly, in my opinion, helped their social development and both are very confident when interacting with other children new environments.
It is unfortunate that your own experience, which sounds awful and must have been traumatic for you, has tainted your view of CMs. As so many point out, CMs are much more regulated nowadays.
I agree with others - perhaps it is the mix and match of different settings that is unsettling for your child.
I hope you find a solution that works for you and your family :)

but I am not sure about the work ethics of many childminders and how do you know what they really do?

Kind of shitty to cast aspersions on an entire cohort based on your very limited observations, no?

For what it’s worth I think a great childminder (and I’ve come across quite a few) slightly trumps a great nursery.

However where I live now, great nurseries are much thicker on the ground than great childminders, so that determined our choice in the end.

I am a SAHM. We are not rich but my husband and I decided to only let children go to nursery when they reach 3 years old. After all, it's only a few years of financial struggle, and our children's early life is worth more. When my children were little I used to take them to various playgroups and baby lessons. I could always tell if a childcarer was the mum/grandma or a childminder. Mums/grandmas always engage in the activities with their children, trying hard to inspire them, while others don't. They just looked really cold and not interested. Once a childminder complained to me about the kids being too active and eating too frequently/much, and she kept shouting at the kids. I believe if children don't want to go to a nursery/childminder they have a good reason for that. They are too young to understand and explain how they feel. So it's down to parents to observe, feel and decide for them. There are lots of great nursery teachers and childminders, you just need to try others. I would avoid those places where they just keep an eye on the children but not give them any attention/love/education.

I am a childminder who has also worked in nurseries in the past..... I hated it. Children stuck in one room for long hours every day (some where 7-6) Yes you occasionally got out for walks etc but for the main part it was one room. I LOVE my job as a CM and the little people I mind love coming to me (as far I know as they are all vocal and have all been with me for years) This is do much more than just a job, I do it because I love it and I genuinely love and care for the children I love after. We doing outings, crafts, mums & tots, soft play, baking etc but I see these little people as an extension of my family as they spend so much time with me (to the extent a set of parents are my sons legal guardians) If you feel this way then that childcare option is not for you. Find someone or somewhere who values your child, interacts with them, cuddles them, comforts them when they are sad and somewhere they are happy to go. I can only imagine how hard it is to leave him, I am so fortunate to be able to work snd still have my son with me, I couldn’t imagine leaving him somewhere he didn’t love. X

Elizabeth Warren wrote a book about the impact of two wage earner families. Basically that's what's driven up house prices and asset values so the winners are those who've managed to buy a few BtL's to get extra cash whilst everyone else is working hard to pay more for houses.

mydogs 7-6? Awful.
We had a childminder like you 2 days a week after school. She was fantastic and my kids still speak fondly of her.

@LaurieMarlow it's not that limited of an experience. The regular toddler groups I've been going to twice a week at least 9 childminders between the 2 groups. Then if you go to soft play near me on a certain day it's full of childminders looking at their phones or chatting whilst their mindees run riot, totally unsupervised. Plus my neighbour is a childminder. The lady around the corner is a childminder too. I live by a school I see a lot of childminders with 8 children in tow. It's very unusual to be a SAHM where I live.

I've been to so many local groups and activities I see the same granny's , nanny's, childminders, a few part time mums and Dads that do shifts etc.

A childminder is human, but they are being paid to look after the children, it's a choice. I understand it's not well paid, but they should be behaving professionally. Out of all the childminders I've met, I would say I've met 2 that come across well, but those are not ones I see regularly.

I have a friend with a DC same age, who is also a childminder and she is in theory so well qualified and reads and does lots courses. But her personality is not suited to it.

I'm not saying nursery is better, but when I was due to go back to work I think I would of considered a childminder, but now I'd be much less likely to.

Tiredand...she may have done but I think that it is a load of rubbish. I had a SAHM. I had mental health issues in my teens. Growing up in a home where we spent many years on the breadline, with my mum under immense stress and constantly arguing with my dad when they didn’t know how they were going to pay the next bill or put food on the table wasn’t a great environment for a child. When she eventually resumed her career, life improved dramatically. The main reason that property is so expensive in the U.K. is that we’ve had a huge growth in population over the past 20 years combined with many more single parent households and an ageing population. That means we need more houses, particularly low cost and social housing. Women have always worked, working class women that is. My grandma worked all her life and so did her mum before her. The difference is now that middle class women work and they are allowed to have professional jobs.

I did know what ds' childminder got up to a lot of the time as I could see the kids playing in the big back garden from my own house's windows (especially if I went up to the attic dormer window) I could also see (from my front window) the other kids happily running in. (Able to observe these occasions when I was off work ill but ds still went in to her; plus from before he was born we were able to see that the kids going next door were happy & well cared for).

It was more a mini nursery as there were 3 minders - the CM, her mum and MIL - so they weren't too restricted on numbers and, with the exception of the "family works long weekend away" and a fortnight at Christmas, there was never any need to cover holidays or sickness .

They were great with ds and had a lasting connection with him for many years after he stopped going there (literally until they sold the house and moved away about 10 years ago). He is still friends with another boy who was there at the same time as him, who we met up with (so I got to know his mum) at the Ducklings swimming classes I took him to at weekends (when, guess what, I had time to have fun with him ).

Come to think of it, I never bothered actually looking at the Care Commission's inspection reports as I was comfortable with what I witnessed and the evidence of how well ds was looked after quite apart from the convenience of being the house next door

I've often wondered about this. I know 2 girls, siblings, on the surface of it well off (financially), normal family. Their mother left them at a nursery full time from 6 weeks old. She gave up work when they were end of primary school so she could have "time for herself". Both girls are the least secure and indeed most unpleasant children I have ever met - now age 12 and 14. Obviously other factors at play but I've often wondered if their parents early lack of interest is a factor.

I put 2 of my children in a very expensive University nursery that had won awards and an outstanding ofsted report. My experience was appalling. I pulled them out after a month. They wouldn't place my daughter in the correct room for her age as "she will have to move up in 6 months and that will be a hassle" so my 18 month old daughter had to be in a room where the eldest children were 3. I walked in one day to see her scraping the bottom of her dessert bowl obviously being the last child to finish her tea with not an adult in sight. They were all outside. I had found out I was pregnant that day with my 3rd so I put her coat on, collected her brother and never looked back. 18 month later I put her and her brother in a council funded community nursery and I could not be happier with them. My 3rd started attending last September and he has special needs. He is thriving. And the support I receive off of them is amazing. My point is any nursery can do and say the right thing on the day of parents visits and ofsted inspections but it doesn't mean they are doing it all the time. If you don't feel right in leaving your child somewhere then move them . Your mother's intuition is probably right.

Yahflaming you say " As you seem to be so pessimistic, dogmatic and damn right obtuse about the whole thing how about giving up your job and raising your child yourself rather than relying on others to do it for you?" Are you suggesting nurseries are raising kids rather than caring for them in the 9 to 5?

I have a 13 year age gap between my kids, dd went to nursery because her dad and I worked, we had no choice, she is now 24 and has suffered a lot of mental health problems, anxiety, depression, couldn't settle at Uni so came home, she was homesick. Now ds it was different I was at home with him and he didn't go to nursery, we did go to mother and child groups together, he is happy well adjusted, and no mental health problems, no separation anxiety ECT, so from my experience I would tend to agree, that nursery is not ideal, extended family or a child minder would possibly be better.

itwaseverthus - not sure you can argue anything other than that nurseries which take children from as young as a few weeks old for a large part of their waking day, sometimes for most of the week, have a significant role in bringing up children - it's not just the parents, is it (any more than it's just the nursery)? How a child is treated at nursery/childminder's/grandmas/with the nanny/whatever the arrangement is, has a lifelong impact. That doesn't mean the impact is negative or more significant than the parents', but it would be ridiculous to argue that anyone spending so much time with a child every day would not be part of that child's upbringing. That's why parents can get so anxious about their childcare and school choices - because they know they are relying on others to help bring up their children and be a significant part of their children's lives. You need mutual respect, trust and childcare ideals for that to work smoothly and happily. The OP is not getting that with her current childcare arrangements. Neither she nor her child seem to view nursery as an acceptable alternative to, or extension of, herself, and that is making them both anxious. Whether the OP is right to be concerned in her specific case - who knows, unless they are a fly on the wall with an intimate knowledge and understanding of that particular child and the way he interacts with the world?

Having worked in nurserys and all sorts of childcare places, I think there are many things at play here. Yes absolutely it can be the nursery - why are they not noticing him? But one nursery in particular that I worked at, well we all loved the children, had great working relationships with each other and worked hard together to make some fun times. What I would say however, is that we still saw those sad sad children, but it didn't come from us. It came from parents being oblivious as to how the constant being away from home affected them, we had a couple of families whose children would attend nursery every single day for the absolute maximum time regardless - even when they were not working. It really doesn't sound like you're one of those so I really would look at other childcare arrangements! They can be places of fun and loving environments, but also remember it just isn't right for some children. Tricky one.

Okay this may seem mean but it has to said. Leaving while they're distracted at breakfast will cause more attachment issues than nursery. You're effectively abandoning them. You NEED to say goodbye. Even if it's hard! That's what being an adult and a parent is about. They need you to reassure them they're loved at all times. The only person who's worth a dam and can affect they're out on live is you at this stage, no one else.

If the nursery is a poor fit, find another. My sister in law did and now my nephew loves nursery. My boy 7 months old, loves nursery. And here's there 3 days a week for 8 hours. He's learnt so much, and so quickly and has already made friends (didn't know babies could? Thought that was a few leaps away)
But please don't sneak off while they eat toast, say goodbye, even if they cry. Let them see you go. Be brave!

1 day a week is possibly the issue also, ds went daily and had a routine and it was familiar, a lot of nurseries won't do 1 day a week for that reason.

I agree maxybrown. It doesn’t matter how wonderful the nursery or childminder is, some children would just rather be at home. And when the child doesn’t thrive in said setting, the parent blames the nursery.
There’s no one size fits all in childcare. A pp mentioned the childminders she sees all the time at soft play chatting on their phones, maybe the children they’re looking after are happy running around playing!
Those children might be bored stiff at a Montessori.

I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading on here. It absolutely depends on the quality of the nursery you send your child to! DS (3.5 yrs) has been going to nursery 8:30-5:30 3 days a week since he was 10 months old. He's now dropped to 2 days a week as we've had a 2nd so I've decreased my working days by 1. He loves nursery! They have a huge garden with a mud kitchen, vegetable patch, Sensory area. A massive room indoors with book corner, role play corner, they take regular walks to the local park to have a picnic. He has also learned so much he can count to 35, knows his A-Z, speaks perfectly like talking to another adult!
Some people don't have the luxury of family to look after their children! Nor do some people have the luxury of not having to go back to work!
Anyone who's child's mental health has been affected by which nursery they were placed at (unlikely unless the teachers were abusive ) - that was YOUR responsibility as a parent to make sure they were placed somewhere reputable, and keep an eye on their behaviour and happiness. Personally I've never heard anything of the sort and I know many children that attend nursery that are very happy!
Perhaps where I live I'm just lucky that there are a lot of good nurseries to choose from!

I can't believe some of the comments on here either😁

Apparently one person wants to murder me, I want to drag down every working mother, lock women in the kitchen, I'm an MRA or an incel, judge people for being on benefits, I'm 'painful', chose the nursery based purely on the rating and no recommendations, look down on nursery staff.....

All for suggesting that childcare standards need to be improved!

Any more crimes I have committed?

So far this holiday I’ve seen a child pushed in anger by a parent when it kept running off whilst the parent was shopping for clothes, I’ve seen kids sitting in restaurants ignored for entire durations of a meal, I’ve seen them get sworn at and called names and at play parks I’ve seen them get hurt and ignored whilst the parents sits chatting to her mates. If a nursery nurse did any of that they’d be sacked or worse. Parents really aren’t ideal in many cases.