To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

I'll never forget the first day my eldest went to school, for her first visit. In NZ, the parents go along too, I don't know if they do here. There were two children who had never, ever, been away from their parents - not to family, not to friends, not to ECE, not to a childminder.

They refused to leave their parent's lap, let alone engage with the teacher and other children - to speak when spoken to, or join in. They really looked traumatised just by being there - still with their parents there.

I had worried about using childcare, but I was so glad, watching this, that I had. My girl was just right in there, boots and all, happy and confident with the other children and the teacher, enjoying all the new people and experiences.

Obviously, these were fairly extreme examples, but there were two of them in this one new entrants class. The new entrant teacher resignedly told me that it was far more common than you'd think, and that these children were really on the back foot, when it came to starting school.

I agree re "love": dh's mum would be mortally affronted if anyone said she hadn't loved her 5 kids, yet at 60, he is 3 years into therapy addressing his emotionally and physically abusive (at the hands of his mum) childhood

What is important is a nurturing environment - which is not in some parents' capabilities and conversely, might actually be better in a nursery

I always knew I was loved and nurtured by my parents (yet I was a latch key kid from 8 or 9) - whereas dh has been scarred by his childhood experience. (Not saying I don't have my own issues though , some of which were caused inadvertently by my parents "being happy with whatever my results were as long as I'd done my best").

Absolutely, @Pamplemousecat. I'm well aware that my adored DS is just one child of many to his teachers, childminder etc, but, assuming the level of care/attention/education is good, and there's a basic liking, and that the child has plenty of love from family and friends, I think that's not necessarily a bad thing at all.

To lighten the topic, you know how the parenting books will talk about "separation anxiety" and that if you/they walk/crawl away, the toddler/baby will soon want you/come back....

...Nope, not in ds' case . We would crack long before he did as he disappeared into the distance - and we weren't particularly clingy parents But we love that he has grown up into a confident, self-assured, personable young man

It seems that whatever women do they are wrong or maybe we are more wired to family needs and therefore guilt if we can't meet every need going. It was ever thus. Female mill workers in Yorkshire were working mothers long before today's norm. They had to put food on the table and relied on a combination of older women family/neigbours and childminders who did not have the training and checks in place today. I had to mix and match childcare myself in the 70s for my part time job myself and there were women quietly suffering depression because of isolation in the home. You do the best you can. I am happy about some of the choices I made and in hindsight I would now have changed others but I have a happy well adjusted adult daughter who is the breadwinner for her family and who has to make her own adjustments and compromises. Don't we all?

Whilst I don’t think nursery staff love my child, I do believe they love children and that’s why they work with them. Who on earth would do such a hard, unrelenting job if they didn’t love children?

Is that not like saying who on earth would be a cleaner if they didn't love scrubbing toilets?!

No, not at all. You don’t just pick up a nursery nurse job at the job centre or through a Facebook advert. You need to train and qualify. You don’t do that because you don’t want to. It’s not in the slightest comparable to scrubbing loos

I do think because of the heavy recruiting for modern apprentices the nursery industry attracts very young people who perhaps don’t always know exactly what they are letting themselves in for. I have spoken to a fair number who honestly thought it would be like babysitting or playing with their niece or nephew. In reality they are underpaid, over worked often working well out of ratios and completely out of their comfort zone. It’s no wonder some don’t look too happy. The big chain nurseries need to value these roles more by paying a higher wage. They wouldn’t get more commitment and less turnover resulting in improved care

Well of course @lovelookslikethis is the best parent on the damn planet. Not a single moment in a single day does she wish she had some time to herself. The rest of us sub-par parents should bow down.

I chose to have a child because I wanted a child.. obviously. I love her more than life itself, however, I do not believe that her being with me every single second of everyday is good for either of us. I reduced my hours to 4 days a week for more of a balance and I believe this works fine for us BOTH.

Not forgetting that I still get to have my own life and not take a massive (and unrecoverable) hit to my career.

This is why women will always be relied on to be the one that 'gives up' when children come along - because other women cannot understand that childcare comes in many forms and just aim to beat others down for their choices.

If you want and can be a SAHM that's brilliant and I'm genuinely pleased for those that are, just as I would expect someone to be pleased for me for doing well at work.

Bet there's no men's forums discussed this topic.

I agree Please

It just goes to show how far feminism and women's rights still have to go if the assumption is still that it is automatically the mother's responsibility to do all day-to-day care and/or they are judged by other women if they don't

Where are the fathers in these discussions?

I don't think even Ofsted inspectors are infallible and they are unlikely to see the 'business as usual' staff: child engagement when they inspect unless the place is truly sh*t.
Some childcare provision is better than others but on the whole no one cares for your child like you do. It's the same scenario in care homes for older people.

In my experience it's about recognising paid childcare is not the same, doing all you can so the benefits of the nursery are high and the concerns are minimised either by using family, working part time, flexible hours etc. Or just making the most of weekends and holidays, choosing one that you feel the most comfortable with. In a few cases the nursery or paid childcare setting actually is better due to parental mental health or physical ill health.

I agree that it's not good enough that the prices are so high and the care so variable.

Tbh I think ofsted is more of a blunt instrument for private day nurseries that provide childcare for under 2s (I think it’s important to Make the distinction between them and a pre school) because there are fewer measurables.
Mine is good and that’s fine for me. I was surprised they weren’t ourstanding until I read the report and it specified they weren’t outstanding as they didn’t forge relationships with nearby primary schools. Which I couldn’t care less about

Get him out of that nursery ASAP, Find a better one (with first hand recommendations from people/children you know and trust)

I would change settings have you thought if a child minder? That tends to be a more homely atmosphere

I have mental health issue, I was cared for by family as a child
My teens don’t have mental health issues, they were cared for by a nursery whilst I was in university and then work.

Do I agree with nurseries 100%. I also believe a good nursery will get your child ahead academically further then you can as a parent, providing you have a good nursery.

Both my sons were reading and writing before starting reception. That was not through me as a teacher, or grandparents as teachers (because the rule was no teaching at home), but through the nursery who could see they had the ability, and wanted to move on, so they led dc and they went.

If you aren’t happy with the nursery then move your child. But many of us out there, really liked the work the nurseries down with our children, they made our children happy, and what more could we want?!

Not sure you can make the jump to saying it will give children mental health problems- plenty of children with MH issues & never been to nursery! But I do agree that tho are some terrible nurseries out there- but hardly surprising when you see how poorly paid it is.

Forgive me, as I have not read the entire thread.
I am glad that I was able to be a SAHM for a few years while my children were very young.
Many modern parents are unable to do so, and both have to work from when their child or children are very young. This may be what the OP was referring to. That both parents are working with the mass institutionalisation of our children at a very young age.
My youngest was 3 when I returned to work, and I used a combination of nursery, childminder, and Grandparent. I would not have wanted to work before my youngest was 2, but it was a choice that many parents do not have.
I am fortunate in that I knew the nursery was very good, as my child was very happy there, would talk about various staff incessantly, was reluctant to leave when I collected him, and was so excited when he saw his favourite member of staff in the shops one day.

OP please be aware that often when staff take groups of children out, they are monitoring everything going on to keep the children safe. They might be keeping an eye on a child who's potentially a runner for example. It's really difficult to watch over a group of children on an outing while performing like a CBeebies presenter. Harder than it looks. Please don't be negative about under paid, undervalued, over worked staff. Most people in the children's workforce are so badly paid, they couldn't afford to pay for the kind of care and education they provide. You have no idea how hard we work and the sacrifices we make, like a pension, nice holidays or time with our own children. We work really hard to give children the best outcomes. When they struggle, it's usually something about themselves or at home, not because they are in nursery. Mic drop...

All 3 of mine did nursery. Can't say it did them ant harm. I am certain if I had stayed at home with them it would have been much worse. But then I am no Mary Poppins and had zero family help.

They refused to leave their parent's lap, let alone engage with the teacher and other children - to speak when spoken to, or join in. They really looked traumatised just by being there - still with their parents there

So, basically, these kids were like babies/toddlers when they started nursery- not liking to leave their caregivers! What is the advantage of doing the separating age 6 or 9 months as opposed to age 4? Lots of nursery children have to be peeled off their parents, there are posts about it on MN all the time. You can habituate children to anything, doesn't make it a good thing for them.

We all see what we want to see.

I am not against nursery or childminders by the way, it's just the 'evidence' they are great isn't really 'evidence' as such- having children who confidently go into school without a backward glance can be interpreted positively (confidence) and negatively (less strong attachment, used to being left).

The mental health epidemic is happening right now with adolescents tbh with you.

Some nurseries are good some not so.

Equally, some kids love nursery some not so.

You're generalizing based on very little and the fact that you are upset your child is in nursery.

I'm not saying you're wrong about adolescents mental health issues but coming on here and posting this is not helpful when the majority A) do it because they have to and B) worry about enough as it is.

@Nuckyscarnation
Oliver James has his own issues...

You shouldn’t keep him somewhere like that. I went through visiting 14 different nurseries and childminders before i ended up choosing a childminder for my dd. Dd was an early talker (late walker) but I waited until dd could speak and express herself really well before organising professional childcare. The minder I chose would only have 3 kids at a time, they were a similar to age to Dd and the children were really fond of her. Dd would sit on her lap, cuddle her etc and I had no problem with that because I trusted this particular minder and Dd was happy. I visit the minder even now long after DD has left there and started school because DD still thinks of her and makes her cards and prezzies just like she would for her aunty or my best friend. I know it’s time consuming but you have to visit LOTS of nurseries AND consider childminders (they can be better then nurseries if you chose the right one that suits your child), when you find ones you like visit them multiple times. I had two different nurseries i was set on for Dd before chosing the minder and on third visit for both nurseries i noticed things that were really off putting