To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

@lovelookslikethis even if you don't believe that's true about preparing for school - you can't seriously believe that everyone can a) afford to stay at home for 4 years before going back to work (if they can get a job at all!) or b) want to stay at home.??

I love DD more than life itself, but I also love myself and if I was at home with her all day everyday, I would probably be in some sort of mental facility.

So, how does the argument of children deprived of SAHP growing into psychopaths hold up from an historical perspective?
As the SAHP is a relatively new invention then did the majority of our ancestors have mental health issues?
FWIW OP I think your child looks lost in nursery because going in one day a week means he isn’t in the routine of the nursery and probably doesn’t have any friends. He isn’t in there long enough to integrate. You’d be better off putting him in with a childminder.
Just because nurseries do not work for you does not mean they don’t work for the thousands of other children who attend them.

It sounds like the nursery isn't the right 'fit'for you son. I viewed several nurseries and the only one my LB didn't cling to me and scream the place down is the one he's in.

It might also be because he's only there 1 day a week. My LB has been in nursery 4 full days for 3 months and he settled in within a month because he was going so often.

He's come on so far since being there, his speech, social skills everything, as much as it pains me I would never have been able to give him that if he was at home all the time with me.

Maybe look at another nursery? Ofsted ratings are not the be all and end all, my son hated most of the outstanding nurseries when we visited them.

YANBU op.

Studies have shown that young children in day care have much higher cortisol levels than children cared for by family members. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170224093753.htm

The book “How not to fuck them up” by Oliver James has some very interesting reading on the subject.

Unfortunately people have no choice but to use childcare, so we all kid ourselves it is all fine

@aliteralAIBUforonce
Asking out of genuine curiosity and not trying to be rude...

What age are you referring to!? Do you mean babies under 1 year? What about a 2 year old going to nursery? Or a 3 year old? Even 4? Do you feel that an older child would be less negatively affected?

We didn't send ours till the funding kicked in after they turn 3. That was just a financial decision. This thread has got me thinking though - if money were no issue would I have sent them younger or not...

I think making generalisations is silly and naive at best. With the best will in the world unless you are a child development professional or a mental health professional you are making a giant unsubstantiated leap on your personal experience

Childcare and being away from parents is not new....granted in days before family units were more linked and closer. However there has always been a need for whatever reason for some form of childcare.

It's a little ignorant in the complexities of Mental health issues to assume an increase based on childcare. Impact factors such as style of parenting , cross reference with the impact in some cases of people not able to afford childcare but not being comfortable staying at home. There are so many things.

It's hard when you see them upset at the beginning or feeling lonely , but it's how you deal with it that is more important.

I have had both options with my DC, on one hand I've at some points been able to stay at home and at some points they have been in nursery. I have sometimes made the right choice and sometimes I have made the wrong one. Sometimes it's been absolutely the best thing for their socialisation and has caused their development to come on leaps and bounds and sometimes it wasn't the right place and I had to move them.

Like all parenting decisions they are made at the time with the best intentions factoring in needing to keep a family housed and watered, to make your statements OP you clearly have focused on a single issue and extrapolated an assumption that just doesn't bear up.

However what you have tried to do is guilt trip both yourself and others who have to use childcare. Like all of parenting decisions it's just not that simple. Guilt is useless and pointless. Give yourself a break but more importantly lay off other people's choices....parenting is hard enough ....no need for the silly statements like that, it achieves nothing .

I don't really understand this "preparing for school" business either. School is compulsory from age five. That's when they need to be prepared for it. You wouldn't send them to school at 18 months so they don't need to be prepared for it then either. There is far more to life than preparing for the next stage of it four years ahead of time.

As for the question in the OP, I've long thought that the main reason children who go to nursery tend to be developmentally ahead is because they have had to learn independence skills sooner than children of sahms due to not spending all of their time around an attuned and bonded caregiver. Some people see this as a benefit, others as a problem. Maybe it is more stressful for the child?

please then why have children? If you don’t actually enjoy looking after them every day?
Caring and looking after your own child is not a chore and a dreadful pain to be avoided, it is a privilege, and a very short period of time before they grow older.
Many parents do not have the choice of course not, and for some parents using nurseries full time is essential, however we can’t pretend that nurseries offer a better standard of parenting/love and care than actual parents, nor can we pretend babies need independence at 13 months for heavens sake.

we can’t pretend that nurseries offer a better standard of parenting/love and care than actual parents

Nurseries don’t ‘parent’ and a child who goes to nursery still has the full benefit of their parents love and parenting skills.

I’m a firm believer that additional close relationships such as the ones they have with engaged nursery staff are of immense benefit to children.

it is not a very short period of time before they grow older.

Some previous civilizations declared their youngsters adults at 15. We used to set it at 18, but so many practices now - extended education, refusal of benefits to youngsters - are effectively setting it at 25. Even at 15, that's 15 years, not 15 days. It's a huge amount of time that women - women predominantly, let's remember - have to sacrifice themselves for.

Things change over that amount of time.

love children have different stages.

Toddlers are Hard. Work. I love mine to pieces. I have never regretted for a second having them and I love them more than I can ever describe. But it is nice to get a break from them

No one should be made to feel bad because they don’t want to answer ‘but whhhhy’ twenty odd times a day.

I've long thought that the main reason children who go to nursery tend to be developmentally ahead is because they have had to learn independence skills sooner

Aren’t you over looking nursery staffs specific skills in early childhood learning?

My son’s nursery are all Montessori qualified and have such ability to stretch and grow the kids in their care.

I’m educated to PhD level, but don’t have the specific skills they do.

I disagree Laurie, a baby needs to make firm attachments to a parent. A toddler also.

The majority of parenting and caring of a child in full time nursery falls to the staff working there. The baby/toddler will only come home to sleep five days a week, leaving the weekends only for the parents to be involved.

If you look at the volume of waking hours the baby/child will be spending with the parent, versus nursery setting you will quickly see that the child is in fact being almost wholly raised in an institutional setting with paid staff that do not have the same emotional connection to the child. The deprivation of love and care that most parents offer far outweighs the minimal benefits of nursery.

love Don’t be such a cock. It’s perfectly ok to adore your children but acknowledge that actually you don’t enjoy spending every second of every day with them. I’m amazed though it’s taken this long in the thread for someone to drop the “so why did you bother having them” bollocks.

@lovelookslikethis I have a child with very complex special needs. He needs very specialist help. The symptoms didn't show until after I had had another baby. I felt completely overwhelmed and to be honest I fell in to complete depression because I felt like I was failing my children, and couldn't give each of them the help and attention they needed. I felt nursery staff would be better for my Child with SN. I am getting there now and the fact I couldn't parent my own child in the way he needed kills me.

He however is doing well. Nursery have helped so much with form filling and providing therapy for him. He is happy going to nursery everyday. Getting help has helped my mental health significantly. I am now managing to give him therapy from home myself too.

Not sure why I'm writing this, he was m 3 when he started so not sure it's really relevant to this thread.

But sometimes parents putting their children into nursery isnt because they can't be arsed to look after them. It's a painful and heart hurting decision. But parents mental health is a huge thing. If it means a bit of time out from the intensity of parenting will make you a happier person then I fully believe that's something that will benefit the whole family.

• correction: The deprivation of love and care during nursery hours far outweighs the minimal benefits of a nursery setting

I disagree Laurie, a baby needs to make firm attachments to a parent. A toddler also.

Well of course they do.

And they are.

I’m addition they’re forming relationships with other care givers. You’ll never convince me that having relationships with a small group of additional people who know, love and care fur th us a negative.

DD loved hers and she went full time from 14 months.

She has 2 very close friends from there and she always asks for her ladies - particularly one from the 2-3 room had and still has an incredible bond.

I didn’t want to use a childminder - a local friend had a terrible experience (not tarring all with the same brush) and I’ve also seen very well rated childminders roaring at kids in soft play/sticking them in the jumperoo and going outside for a fag, which didn’t impress me at all.

I think it depends on the child. It didnt suit mine but unfortunately I had no choice. His nursery was great, other kids loved it, he didnt. Then as he got older he had breakfast club, school, after school care and then his gran, all in one day before i collected him at 6.30pm. It's my biggest regret, it was too much for him and i do believe it has caused issues.

I think you are very biased. You've made your belief based on your experience as a child, your ds attitude alone and some snapshots of outings out. That is biased and flawed thinking to generalise for all children. Some childcare settings are great, some mediocre, some sadly poor- whether they be nursery, childminder, relative caring or SAHP.

From my experience i could say nursery is great for kids, in truth it's a good nursery but some kids don't like a nurseey setting and we have a not good one close by. I could also say I'm unsure if kids thrive with relatives/parents, as my siblings did though i far prefered playgroup. Also my neighbours did not thrive with their slipper friendly, anger issued mum and gran.

Different children thrive differently. My friend has 2 dc, 1 who loves their forest nursery and school and one who hated it. Her second dc has thrived far more with the 121 care of a nanny while her first ds would have hated it and been bored.

If your ds is unhappy you need to talk to the nursery, think on why and make changes. Your ds may not be a child who likes nursery setting. He may prefer 121 as he's with relatives for childcare. He may find sharing and being with others harder given a lack of experience, he could be an introvert. He could find it confusing as it's only 1 day. He may have laxer boundries/Different rules with relatives or more rigid if it's more that one childcare provider he may find the differences make him nervous.

I think as parents we have to balance out the possible disadvantages of going to nursery under 2, with the possible disadvantages of losing our jobs/careers.
Our DC don't just need us as babies, they need us to buy their £400 secondary uniforms (see other thread) and possibly to help with university costs.

Simply consider one thing; not your desire not to listen to your toddlers questions, nor your desire for a break but just consider the baby or child only (and not yourself) for one moment.
They would infinitely choose to be with their parents all of the time even those that are not good parents, a child always wants to be with their parents in their home, surrounded by family and friends, growing up learning from someone they love deeply. It’s not rocket science. I am sorry but not only do I think nurseries are of very limited benefits to young children, I genuinely believe in most cases if not all, that they are actively damaging to young children and babies.
It is a view many people have and do not have the courage to share.

You are missing the point. Babies and children raised at home also form strong attachments with others. With family, family friends and other babies. Starting with the parent in a place of safety, naturally developing connections when they are ready.

A nursery setting is certainly not the only place a child can expand their social circle and develop relationships with others, a child has many possibilities and opportunities to do so every day, as I suspect you already know, and additionally choose to ignore laurie

I wish people would get it into their heads that the 'ideal' of babies and children at home FT with a non-working mother not using childcare is a very new one.

In Jane Austen's day, ordinarily loving middle-class mothers sent their newborns out to wetnurse and only brought them home again once they were weaned and walking. Our society would see this as a key trauma and a barrier to mother-child bonding, but it doesn't seem to have been.

In fact JA's mother a busy rural clergyman's wife running a household at a time when you had to produce and store almost all of your own food simply wouldn't have had time to look after a baby that was entirely dependent on her, in combination with her household work, despite her servants, so it made sense to send out your babies until they were toddling and more independent. And yet the Austens were devoted to their children, and they were a happy, successful and mutually-loving family.

So the idea that capitalism/feminism/your own particular bugbear has 'driven' women out to work away from their children is entirely inaccurate, as if the idea that if you really love your child, you will devote yourself to its care 24/7.

So you don't use a nursery them lovelookslikethis, do what's best for your child. You cannot generalise for other children with their own needs and family situation. What i don't understand is OP feels the same as you yet isn't asking about ideas or advice on finding another nursery or intergrating her son more, or pulling him out. Like yourself if i didn't like or support an option or i thought my it was detrimental to my dc , I'd do anything not to use or or ask for help to make the best of it.

I would never use a childminder as personally in my (limited) experience its not been great. Doesn't mean my friends dc havent thrived with them.