To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

I've no regrets about the nursery years with my DCs. Staffing was stable throughout their time there and with working part-time through most of those years, my DCs got a good balance of time at home and more sociable time. When one DC needed SALT interventions, nursery was briliant at working with him, far more creative than I could have been and had the benefit of doing targeted activities 1:1 and in groups which I couldn't do myself.

The difference came in school wrap-around provision, and DS struggled with the demands of the school day and the business of the after school club. That's not to criticise them or the general concept, just that he needs a much quieter environment and shorter day due to some SNs that make a school day more intense to him. The flexibility of nursery activities and being able to toddle off for a doze in the book corner worked well for him.

OP, for what it’s worth, I agree with you. I have worked in many nurseries as a temp worker and I wouldn’t have sent my DC to one before the age of 2.5 or 3. But I am a SAHM which I know is not possible for everyone. There are no easy answers

Best to do it yourself if you want to be 100% certain, and it's free, so win win.

It's not 'free' if you're a higher earner - you're losing your income! It's only 'free' if you didn't earn much more than childcare beforehand.

When I went back to work after DS1 I didn’t return to my original job because it would have meant putting him in childcare 8-5, four days a week, which I didn’t want. I got a new job which although was still full time hours it meant he’d only be in childcare for two days a week and on the 3rd day I would be working he’d be at home with his dad.

He was placed with a childminder for various reasons, but my main reason was that I believed that environment was more beneficial for younger children as he was only 10 months old when I returned to work. He had a brief stint in a nursery when he was 3 as I felt he needed to be surrounded by a larger group of children (societal beliefs) but after 3 months I removed him and placed him back with a childminder where he stayed until he started school.

During this time we have had a second child and he is also with a childminder two days a week and we will not even bother trying him in a nursery or pre-school setting.

When I returned to work after DS2 I dropped my hours to 25 a week.

I appreciate that I am lucky to be able to do this though as I know a lot of other parents don’t have the luxury of this choice.

I could have gone back full time in the same manner I did after DS1 but I told my DH that I wanted to be home with the children as much as possible whilst they are young.

I grew up in full time childcare and although my mom hadn’t had any other option but to do that, I really wish I had seen more of her during my childhood.

In regards to your post OP - as others have said, if your child is only going one day a week and I imagine it’s not enough for them to feel settled and familiar with the setting. I also bought nursery required a two day attendance as minimum for this reason.

It will probably wipe out half of my wage. We haven't even looked into it yet if I'm completely honest my head is firmly buried in the sand.

My Dm would like to do the childcare but that would mean her giving up her work and I can't subsidise her enough to cover her wages. Also I even have some doubts about that. I think someone else said it best that the best care for your child is you and that's definitely how I feel.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?
OP we are seeing the epidemic now. Thousands of teenagers on antidepressants, suicidal, unable to cope with life. The cause is multifactorial, but 2 working parents is one of the causes. Young children want to be with a parent, and as a society we are just deluding ourselves that leaving them with someone else is ok. And I say that as someone who did go back to work.

Does it not cost more in childcare than what you make? I think a lot of people don't work post dc because of this, it wipes a full wage out for most

Perhaps for some people but not for most I shouldn’t think. My nursery was initially £800 a month and I cleared c£3k by the time she was 3 it was £350, so a big difference.

Plus she loved nursery and would ask to go all the time so I was happy and she was happy.

And it’s lucky I didn’t give up my career as my husband then left me a few years later. Totally out of the blue, had been together 20 years. I would have been screwed if I wasn’t working and I’ve sadly met many women in that situation since. You shouldn’t ever hand over your financial security to another in my opinion as it can effect your whole life

I’d be looking elsewhere. It doesn’t sound great to me. If your ds isn’t happy there you’re not going to be happy.

DD had a bad day last week. We went for a walk in the pram which was distraction enough to sooth her but it did make me think, what would they do with her in nursery if she was like that?

I used to work in a nursery when I was a student (not a qualified nursery worker / childminder but was hired as an extra pair of hands at the nursery, never on my own etc). If a child was having a bad day we would try any number of things. After making sure they weren't hurt or hungry we would try cuddles, a story, distraction with a toy or activity, songs etc. A child would never just be left to cry.

Staffing ratios mean a one on one walk isn't always possible, but the nursery I worked at did two group walks a day anyway.

It will probably wipe out half of my wage. We haven't even looked into it yet if I'm completely honest my head is firmly buried in the sand.

I know some people who pay almost £1’000 for their childcare and it shocks me so much. I absolutely believe childcare staff should have a good wage but at the same time I’m shocked how much money a family have to sacrifice to enable both parents to work.

I can see why some people look to family members for childcare and I can understand why some women become SAHP when potentially it may not actually be what they want,

Me dropping from full time hours to part time hours has only reduced my pay by about £400 a month so thankfully it was something that as a family we were able to afford. Sadly that’s not the case for others.

I do feel for mother’s who desperately don’t want to return to work (or want to reduce their hours) but can’t because the family can’t take the financial hit of a drop in the joint income.

Best to do it yourself if you want to be 100% certain, and it's free, so win win.

It's not free.

It costs whatever you would otherwise earn.

For some parents, that might equal out. For many others, it doesn't.

Best to do it yourself if you want to be 100% certain, and it's free, so win win.

It’s not free - it’s loss of earnings, career, pension

Children who attend nursery full time often settle in better than children who attend just one day a week. Young children thrive on routine, be that Grandparents, nursery or childminder.

Two things OP:

Don’t judge a nursery by its offstead rating. As you’ve discovered it’s very difficult to measure the staff engagement with the children but it is the number one priority IMHO. We changed nurseries when DS2 was born so DS1 moves aged 3. Both loved the second one and the level of cuddles, engagement etc was much higher. Both loved the new one.

Being part time also makes it very hard for young children to form attachments. My DS1 did two days a week and always seemed rather lost. My DS2 (also very different personality!) ended up full time once his bro was at school and genuinely loved it - the owner is like family to him and he genuinely loves her. Lots of cuddles and his friends and key workers are hugely important to him. I would say it’s really shaped his capabilities in building positive relationships. All nursery workers I’ve talked to have said it’s MUCH harder for part timers to settle.

That said, I agree to some extent because I’m sure there are plenty of loving, well-meaning parents who are using a nursery and not realising it’s not the best it could be - which is what we did the first time round. And yes, those early attachments and experiences are SO much more important than lots of people realise.

So yanbu to wonder about this, but YABU to leave your laddie where he’s not happy - I would suggest finding somewhere you are happier with and doing four or five mornings (with g’parents doing the afternoons if possible).

My DCs went to my workplace nursery so I saw them out and about. Very engaged with the DCs. But if you want a family atmosphere, you can't beat a CM. Mine had one day a week at a CM and loved her.

There are far more people who are abused while being cared for by family members, than are abused in nursery.

Our nursery wouldn't take DC for less than 3 afternoons as they said it's harder for them to settle - try putting him in longer and see if that helps?

Or change nurseries? Ours was fantastic and I'm still friends with the workers who loved my DC and also with the other nursery mums!

The lesson here is don’t pick a shit nursery OP.

And Ofsted ratings mean bugger all.

Our nursery is just amazing. DS1 often refuses to leave when I pick him up. His relationship with the staff is so lovely.

I also think 1 day a week is the worst of all possible worlds. Very difficult for them to settle if so infrequent. How about 3 mornings instead?

Lol at those who coincidentally believe care outside of the home / family environment is detrimental and can also afford (or not afford but are subsidised by benefits) to stay at home with their kids.

My child’s nursery is brilliant and their development is outstanding, I believe dc is far more developed because of our amazing childcare team. They are fabulous and dc loves nursery days. They are far more beneficial to development and learning than sitting in Asda Café or traipsing the local parks over and over again.
My child is developmentally leaps ahead of friends children who do not attend nursery. Could be coincidence but seeing as OP i basing her argument on anecdotal evidence so will I.

I would rather bring a child up with working parents with a understanding of what it means to provide for yourself and your family than rely on others to pay for my self indulgent belief that no one else can raise my child as well as me (I’m not educated in child development or education and doubt most SAHP are)

@aliteralAIBUforonce
Maybe your the problem.
My two loved nursery they went two days a week from age 2.
The staff were amazing and really attentive.
They sometimes asked to go in when I was at home so they could see their friends.

You've got a shitty nursery.

My 13 month old LOVES nursery, she walks in with her arms reached up for her careers every day and I have endless lovely updates on tapestry.

I think nursery prepares them for school and teaches them independence and resilience.. I definitely don't think an epidemic of MH issues is on its way that's batshit.

Also going one day a week isn't great, can't form good relationships with other children when they're then not going to be there for another week. It's like starting all over again every week.

I agree op, it is a complete taboo though, and barely anyone I know is prepared to put their head over the parapet to discuss the long term effects of raising babies and children in an institutional setting.

The best nursery in the world can not provide or replace the attachment and love a baby/young child needs in their early years.

There was a study recently that found that nursery was harmful for under twos. Someone from mumsnet came to shut down the scientist who conducted the research when it was discussed on radio 4.

A baby or toddler does not need to be prepared for school or independence four solid years before they even need to start school! To people actually believe this is necessary?!