To have hated ‘This is going to hurt’ by Adam Kay?

[SweetMelodies]

Just that really. So many recommendations to read it from others, it seems to have so much praise and is a number 1 seller.

I like to think I have a good sense of humour and sometimes a pretty dark one at that but I just found the book absolutely dripping in misogyny. Sure it IS well-written and he is obviously a very talented writer and some bits were indeed funny... but a lot of it really turned my stomach, the language, the way he speaks about women, his really narrow-minded attitude towards birth that isn’t evidence-based at all, just based the very limited picture of birth he has. He clearly puts the women in a category of ‘other’ and ‘less than’.

I did feel terrible for him having experienced the dreadful situation at the end and it did highlight how overworked drs can be... but at the same time I think the language and attitudes displayed in it really summarised the paternal and disrespectful attitudes in the maternity system that lead to so many women traumatised by childbirth.

Despite this I appear to be completely alone in this way of thinking, did anyone else not get a great feel from this (or parts of this) book?

Totally agree I forgot about that bit (possibly out of self preservation)

I don’t think it’s misognistic; I think it conflicts with the OP’s views about birth.

Most of the time birth is normal and doesn’t have to be medicalised, true. But for a significant proportion of women this is a life or death scenario. Yes, I want agency over my body but ultimately that does go out of the window to a certain extent when it hits that point and I accept the advice of the professional who does this every day if I want the outcome where we all come through it healthy. If the baby is stuck or faltering then you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do.

I don’t think mocking birth plans is misogynistic, it’s realistic. Things can go very wrong very quickly and you can’t always tell beforehand who it will happen to. He is not writing a guide to birth, he is documenting his experiences.

He is not focusing on the woman’s perspective and I wouldn’t expect him to- he is not in their position nor will be ever be and it’s not up to him to try to explain their feelings. I think it’s clear he cares. There is plenty of black humour in medicine.

I enjoyed it very much and like many on here I didn't notice overt misogyny.

OP you really need to re-read that particular section. That wasn't what he was saying at all. The woman was insistent on having all her organs removed.

What it probably highlights, more than anything, is lack of treatment for MH issues within the NHS.

I mock birth plans but not in print, and not to the person who has just made one. I especially mock myself for having one.

I really enjoyed it, but I wish I hadn't read it while pregnant (I didn't realise it was about gynae until I'd started and was then too far in!) as the ending really affected me more than it might have otherwise and I thought about it a lot.

I didn't find it misogynistic - there was mockery but given the environment he worked in, that was always going to be mainly targeted towards women because that's who he worked with. I don't think that makes it misogynistic, just a reflection of his patient base. But that style of humour appeals to me in general, having worked in an emergency service where some of the humour is so dark, I wouldn't dare repeat it to anyone outside that environment as they'd think we were the most evil creatures ever created!

Do pp think he thinks he can get away with misogyny because he’s gay? It would be sexist and obviously misogynistic if he was a blokey straight bloke but coming from someone in a gay relationship..... in the same way that some gay men feel it’s ok to comment on women’s boobs because they are not ‘interested’. Genuine question.

Regards the woman with pain who has no cause found; he is telling it as it is. A line gets drawn where there are no more investigations and you go to pain clinic.
It is not being ‘dismissed’ but there has to be a point where we admit that we can find no cause. Otherwise you are subjected to needless radiation, operations and scarring which make things worse.

Well I loved it. I read it on a train and the man opposite me was laughing at me laughing out loud cos he’d read it too.

I'm a nurse and have worked across many areas of health. I think our humor can be a little dark at times and come across as uncaring. I do try not to be with non medical friends. I just saw a totally burnt out doctor in this book and could relate with it so much. I cried at the end not only for the patient but for how I know a lot of my colleagues feel.

Love this thread as so many different angles to look at things. Does give me a reminder to be aware of how I come across to others, I do honestly care I would hate for people to think I dont.

I can see what you mean. But I just kind of assumed that that's the way doctors have to be to come to terms with it. When someone is operating I dont think it's that helpful to think of the person as a whole with a personality etc, I imagine a level of detachment and just thinking about the crucial component parts you're interested in help you remain focused and detached and calm and unemotional when things go wrong. But I'm not a doctor and might be wrong. Though his heart was never in being a doctor and he didn't seem to have any particular special interest in the field when deciding a specialism so maybe that showed through?

I was so hoping nobody would mention that he’s gay.

I loved it.
Literally laughed out loud.

Ps I read it, thought it was funny, didn’t think anything more until this thread.

Quite Bertrand.

I loved the book, it made me laugh and cry. I have recommended it to several people including a nurse whom I see every 6 months and she remembered my recommendation to thank me for it 6 months later.

I thought it raised a lot of interesting issues. One I remember (and I may be wrong as read it a while ago) was concerning people refusing medical treatment on religious grounds, eg a blood transfusion. He said in the old days the transfusion would just have been given but not documented. Personally that example seems sensible to me but I do see it opens up the whole Dr/God thing.

I listened to the book on audible and quite liked it, went to see the show and wasn't overly impressed. He read a lot of excerpts of the book, word for word and sung some songs. I was expecting a lot of repeated material but thought there might be a few new bits too. He said at the end that his sequel was coming out for Christmas 2019 so makes sense to a certain extent. I didn't think he was misogynistic at all, I think he was right about Jeremy hunt too

Actually just remembered a particularly grim phrase, it was something about old ladies having a tendency to turn themselves inside out by their vaginas. But maybe the fact its stuck in my head will actually remind me to do pelvic fkiir exercises

Why is it a problem that it’s mentioned he is gay .... sorry I don’t understand. So we can’t discuss something because the authors sexuality may or may not have influenced how he or age behaves? Sheesh.

I don't know what his sexuality has to do with anything.
I am straight and female and would inwardly mock a birth plan. I am sure there are plenty of doctors that would want little medically to do with women's bits, young or old, men's plumbing, bowels etc - nothing to be with misogyny or otherwise, it is just not their specialist interest and may find the whole thing grim.

I’m very glad your birth plan helped you, OP. Think though it’s fair to say that most birth plans are written as if what you would ideally like can dictate what can happen. It can’t. Neither can you know how you will feel about various options once you are in labour, especially if it’s your first. There may not be any options in an emergency situation. I speak as someone that had aspects of PTSD after my first labour with a minor emergency and asssited delivery. My idea beforehand of what I would be like in labour didn’t match the reality at all. Although we were both fine, it took me a long time to recover from the complete powerlessness I experienced, and poor handling by HCP postnatal. Thankfully many years later, I now provide counselling to women who have experienced the same or much, much worse.

However, agree a realistic discussion of how you would like to handle the aspects we DO have control over should be done more often, and with more skill.

I enjoyed it but I did suspect some of his anecdotes were more along the urban myth line or exaggerated for effect.

I think it explained very well exactly what is wrong with the way the NHS is run, which can only be a good thing. I was upset on his behalf at the end, I got a sense of him “giving up” because everything was too much of a battle and he just couldn’t do it anymore. Actually, Maybe that’s what has led to some readers picking up a misogynistic attitude. I think the general severe pressure many NHS medics are under can sometimes cause them to come across as slightly patronising towards patients. They know their clinic is running late or that there is a patient who desperately needs him in the next room, so they just don’t have time always to explain to patients whytheir suggestion of doing things a certain way is not a good idea. I’m sure they want to be able to sit and discuss things with patients in depth, including reading birth plans but I can understand why they sometimes don’t feel like they have enough time and just need to get on with what’s best from a medical point of view. so maybe to a patient who DOES want to have much more of an in-depth say in what happens to them, it can sometimes come across as a wee bit “I’m the doctor so we’re doing it this way because I have the training as know what I’m doing and what you’re trying to suggest is a silly idea.”

When I had my two kids, maybe concern was only for the babies’ and my safety. Everything else I thought was by the by in some ways, unplannable for (unless you have a specific instruction like you want the dad to cut the cord or the placenta kept or whatever) and so wise to just make decisions as the need arose. I thought that was Adam kay’s Attitude too so maybe that’s why I’m ok with how he spoke about birth plans etc

I do agree to some extent about the ageist attitude. I got the impression that he only saw women as “valuable” or interesting when they were of reproductive age. I got a real feeling that he saw things like incontinence in older patients as trivial and incidental to his main job of bringing new life into the world. I didn’t like that about him really, it’s like once you were past the age of being able to let him do that you weren’t worth bothering with. Sometimes I could even hear an inner sigh in my head as he was describing particular patients.

Maybe a female ob/gyn would have more empathy for older patients or maybe you actually have experienced these things for yourself or in a v close relative to realise how upsetting it can be for some women.

Assisted delivery!

Haven’t read the whole post, but totally agree with you OP. I was the only one in my book group to have this opinion.
Nice to know I’m not alone.

Op you seem hung up about the birth plan part. It’s good for you that one worked, but that part really resonated with me. I felt like mine wasn’t worth the paper it was written on - I found it refreshingly honest having felt slightly cheated by nct etc and all the emphasis on natural birth.

I didn't enjoy it either. It felt cold, and transactional.