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Original poster

To have hated ‘This is going to hurt’ by Adam Kay?

457 replies

SweetMelodies · 24/08/2019 15:27

Just that really. So many recommendations to read it from others, it seems to have so much praise and is a number 1 seller.

I like to think I have a good sense of humour and sometimes a pretty dark one at that but I just found the book absolutely dripping in misogyny. Sure it IS well-written and he is obviously a very talented writer and some bits were indeed funny... but a lot of it really turned my stomach, the language, the way he speaks about women, his really narrow-minded attitude towards birth that isn’t evidence-based at all, just based the very limited picture of birth he has. He clearly puts the women in a category of ‘other’ and ‘less than’.

I did feel terrible for him having experienced the dreadful situation at the end and it did highlight how overworked drs can be... but at the same time I think the language and attitudes displayed in it really summarised the paternal and disrespectful attitudes in the maternity system that lead to so many women traumatised by childbirth.

Despite this I appear to be completely alone in this way of thinking, did anyone else not get a great feel from this (or parts of this) book?

OP posts:
Original poster
SweetMelodies · 26/08/2019 22:12

No I wasn’t saying AK was working in a male-dominated culture, just wondering whether the phrase ORIGINATED from when obgyn was all-male and therefore coined by men. Of course it could still live on whilst a good proportion of female drs began to join the speciality, I just wondered whether it would begin to fizzle out especially if the area becomes exclusively female. It might not, I just wouldn’t be surprised if it did.

OP posts:
SachaStark · 26/08/2019 23:19

Why would obstetrics and gynaecology become exclusively female? That sounds like a very poor way of redressing misogyny in males in the future.

Amara123 · 27/08/2019 06:29

Becoming female not on purpose Sacha. Just reflects the higher proportion of women in medicine nowadays.

MedSchoolRat · 27/08/2019 06:39

I found the Kalanthi book dull. It needed editing down. I couldn't relate to PK at all, anyway, due to his unusual upbringing. He had one good line ("Does this mean I should start smoking?").

AK became a comedy writer so I reckon he exaggerates a fair bit for comic effect., or accentuates the comic perspective over any other. I found this tolerable becuz it was just one guy's gut feelings about his intense experience (I don't have to agree with all his opinions to find his broad story entertaining). He usually went for humour when he had to decide which way to balance the tone of the narrative. Humour has to be painful at times or it isn't funny. It's also a coping mechanism to keep your sanity in difficult experiences. Like when a bin full of sharps rains down over your head.

Fuckface7 · 27/08/2019 07:36

Oh yes the woman who chucked the bin of (potentially infected) sharps at AK - that was the lady who was in pain and demanded to have her pelvic organs removed, screaming "I know my own body!" I saw that was another incident in the book that posters have said indicates misogyny but again, I read that as gallows humour in the case of a surreal but scary and horrible incident.

FrauRogacki · 27/08/2019 15:14

Yes! He has that very old school doctor knows best mentality. I follow the doctormommy on instagram - also an ob gyn in NHS and she is so different, it was reading her posts and comparing them to his book that made me see what a misogynist he was, albeit one totally brought up in that culture so unable to see it in himself. Just awful. Glad he left medicine.

FredaFrogspawn · 27/08/2019 18:09

Doctors generally do know best when it comes to supporting and preserving health. I bet he saved hundreds of lives, mothers and babies. I’m not glad he is no longer practicing.

Alsohuman · 27/08/2019 18:13

We’re in no position to be glad any competent doctor leaves medicine. He was completely dedicated and a great loss. I’m very sad he gave up, despite it being clear he did so for the sake of his sanity.

XXcstatic · 27/08/2019 19:01

I follow the doctormommy on instagram - also an ob gyn in NHS and she is so different, it was reading her posts and comparing them to his book that made me see what a misogynist he was, albeit one totally brought up in that culture so unable to see it in himself. Just awful. Glad he left medicine

You are naive. Doctormommy is great - I follow her too - but she is a SM brand and a currently practising doctor. She is not going to give you a warts and all view that would harm her image. What she says in private is likely very different.

The whole point about AK's book is that it is an exposé of the culture and pressures of medicine in the late 90s. It is not supposed to give you the warm and fuzzies, the way doctormommy does.

AK left medicine because he cared so much about patients that he could not live with himself after one had a bad outcome, even though it was not his fault. If you really think the NHS is better off without him, you are a fool.

FenellaMaxwell · 27/08/2019 19:35

I’ll take ‘brats and twats’ over someone who refers themselves as ‘doctormommy’ any day!

FrauRogacki · 28/08/2019 06:27

No she's no going to give you a warts and all but she's also not going to refer to hating older women's uro gynacology clinics as she dislikes seeing their anatomy 'stuck to their thermas' (but couched in much cruder terms than that). It was his patronising tone that I didn't like as I've come across it in doctors and it seems to be a product of how it was taught for a long time that is now changing.

Saying I'm glad he left medicine is silly - I take that back.

And yes, he was exposing the NHS, I accept that. But he did have a very familiar, patronising attitude that I meet in certain doctors and not others.

FrauRogacki · 28/08/2019 08:51

Also, Doctormummy is far from "warm and fuzzy". She talks a lot about institutional racism and black maternal mortality, for a start. She seems to view the job as a privilege and she talks a lot about how hard she finds it and her journey into medicine. I would love to read her version of This is Going to Hurt and I'm quite surprised she hasn't been approached by a literary agent yet, given the success of Kay's memoir.

Yes the name is a bit literal but apart from that i don't have problem with it - she's a doctor and a 'mummy' to a very small child so I guess those are her two identities. Surely on Mumsnet we can accommodate that?

wheresmymojo · 28/08/2019 08:58

I'm a feminist and loved the book, didn't think there was an misogyny in it.

it didn’t really center the woman at all

It wasn't supposed to be about centering the woman; the book is specifically about his experiences day-to-day from his viewpoint.

GhostsToMonsoon · 28/08/2019 09:18

AK qualified in 1998

He left school in 1998. He was only born in 1980.

I've read and enjoyed a few memoirs by doctors recently in addition to Adam's book ('Your Life in My Hands' by Rachel Clarke and 'When Breath Becomes Air' by Paul Kalanithi). They're all very different but have some common strands (e.g. doctors' massive workload and responsibility).

I was less keen on AK's attitude towards home birth ("home delivery is for pizzas") which I think is based on the riskier cases he deals with as a doctor, rather than the many midwife-led cases that he didn't see.

Cohle · 23/01/2020 00:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chaineater · 23/01/2020 00:18

Have only read the OP but wanted to say - yes absolutely. He came across as very misogynistic. I thought the whole book was very uncomfortable reading.

Redglitter · 23/01/2020 00:20

There was a thread about Adam Kay's book fairly recently where quite a lot of posters did think he was a bit of dickhead

Thatll be this thread then. You've posted a link to this thread on the thread 😂

aroundtheworldyet · 23/01/2020 00:21

@Cohle
You do realise you’ve linked an old thread to the same thread.
I mean!! Really. That’s hilarious

BodenGate · 23/01/2020 00:22

😂😂😂

Cohle · 23/01/2020 00:30

Yeah I know, I've already asked MNHQ to delete it! Grin

LoseLooseLucy · 23/01/2020 00:33

😂😂😂

bumblingbovine49 · 23/01/2020 00:53

I quite liked the book and didn't really perceive any misogyny at the time of reading it. I may have a re-read of it.

As to.midwives and doctors not liking each other . All I will say is when, I was in the third stage of labour with DS 15 years ago now), I heard a.senior midwife say, to another one '"come on, I want this baby born before the 2 hours is up. I don't want the doctor to come in and start interfering"

If that doesn't indicate some tension.( not dislike or hate) then I am not sure what does.

Cohle · 23/01/2020 01:02

This is quite an old thread bumbling.

I just accidentally bumped it when I made a total arse of trying to link to it on the "my anecdote has been nicked" thread currently in active BlushGrin

SleightOfMind · 23/01/2020 01:20

Didn’t overly tweak my misogyny radar either despite a horrible birth experience where I was treated appallingly.
I remember some stuff about elderly ladies and incontinence that was a bit jarring but well with in the context of his general world weary cynicism.

drinkygin · 23/01/2020 01:23

@bumblingbovine49 by “interfering” she likely meant an instrumental delivery or Caesarean section- indicative of wanting a normal delivery for the woman with no interventions rather than any tension between midwives and doctors.