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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that women can't have it all..........

219 replies

Anon230982 · 24/08/2019 15:04

Before I had my sons I was on a sound educational/career pathway. I wasn't conflicted, I had singular purpose and no responsibility for anything else other than myself. I went to University, got a good degree and started with a job in social care, working for vulnerable adults. I quickly gained a good reputation with my clients, built positive relationships with colleagues and planned to undertake further professional training to progress my career. Then, in 2014, when I was 32 I had my first son. Suddenly, I was given mundane jobs at work, the secondment I was on wasn't extended and I left to have Baby No.1. I took nine months off...…..and experienced the life-changing transition that is becoming a parent. I had a trauma birth, suffered from post-natal anxiety and depression, and eventually, with the help of family and friends, defeated it and got level again. Then back to work. Juggled a very demanding role with the added responsibilities of parenthood, and developed the role to a high standard. My workload was the same on part-time hours as it would have been on full-time hours. When a senior position came up I went for it. Only to be told that I hadn't got it, but I was "an expert in my field." The person who was employed often tapped me for advice. No support from senior colleagues. Left work again in winter 2018 to have Baby no.2. Was told, by an elderly friend of my late Gran's, that "women can't have it all." At the time, I thought she was just a product of her generation but I've had time to think and reflect. Nature is old-fashioned; women naturally prioritise their babies over pretty much everything else. It's (usually) the woman who is the primary care-giver in the first year, who sacrifices her thoughts and actions and identity to the continuous demands of nurturing a little person. Men make a massive transition into parenthood as well, don't get me wrong but now having gone through it twice, I do believe life changes more completely for the woman. Women are primed by nature to sacrifice their own personal self for this purpose; all modern opinions on gender equality are kicked to the kerb. My husband leaves for work in the morning neatly groomed, looking like a respectable adult. I spend my days crawling around on the floor, half naked, eating scraps of food. I can't finish a sentence, or take a crap in peace. He has board meetings and runs a Team. I can just about remember the words to "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star," he delivers speeches and writes binary code for operational management. I can't remember what it's like to hold a conversation with another adult that doesn't involve the words "poo on my hands/awake all night/teething). I can't finish a cuppa. I manage to get dinner done, and look after my sons in the day. And to me, that feels like a massive achievement. Everything else has had to slide. When I do return to work I won't be the same person. That's no choice - it's old-fashioned nature at it's best - it's what motherhood has done to me. My values have changed, as well as my priorities. I'm a mum first - and something else second but I'm not sure what.That's not to say I'm unhappy. I'm probably the happiest I've ever been despite passing my days feeling like an unpaid domestic servant. (And a naked one at that.) But sometimes that lady's words come back to me when I see my husband suited and booted, going to work in the morning and I wonder, was she also trying tell me not to put too much expectation on myself...…..being a mum is the hardest job going and perhaps...….just perhaps for a limited time only you forego your modern right to equality at work...…...you're out of the game for a long time, long enough for someone else to fill your space and for you to lose a lot of work-related skill. There's a significant loss of work-confidence mothers often experience after giving birth and being on maternity leave. Going back into a professional environment where people expect you to deliver and be dressed isn't easy. Perhaps you can't have it all. Or maybe you can't have it all and be happy. What do others think?

OP posts:
DesMartinsPetCat · 24/08/2019 20:21

What a load of self-indiligent drivel.

I spend my days crawling around on the floor, half naked, eating scraps of food

Nobody is denying you the ability to “have it all”, you just don’t seem to be coping with what you have.

AgentCooper · 24/08/2019 20:23

I guess there are lots of variables but I certainly feel that motherhood hasn’t been good for my career. I went part time and yes, it was a choice I made, but my salary wasn’t great to begin with and it would have been almost completely eaten up by paying for childcare. My old boss told me I could come back to full time when I wanted to but unfortunately she left before that was put into writing (silly me, I know) and new boss decided that wasn’t going to be an option as it wouldn’t be good for the business (it’s a university so not exactly a FTSE100 company but hey ho).

So unless I find another job in a few years I will be part time for the foreseeable, which is a shame because I do really like my job. I really wanted to return to work, for my own sanity. I have a PhD and never thought i’d be earning such shitty money in my 30s but to be honest DS comes first. I had PND and really struggled that first year so now that I do feel that honest, deep love for him no job is going to come before him. But I do wish there was more flexibility.

Ilikethisone · 24/08/2019 20:28

What I have found is that it is far easier to have it all without a man. From what I read here, I am not alone.

Actually I would agree with that exh, did 50/50 in the house and with the kids. Dp does the afternoon school run as he finishes first and does more housework because he works less hours.

However, when I was alone and there was only me and the kids schedules to sort it was easier and calmer. Just having that extra adult to consider is difficult.

With exh I also had to deal with his sulking if I worked late or sent an email from home or spoke to a friend on the phone or dared go out. I could even go to the supermarket with the kids without him insisting was up to something and wanting to come.

Dp doesnt do any of that so it is easier with him than with exh. But it was easiest on my own, thinking about what suited the kids and me and work.

DCIRozHuntley · 24/08/2019 20:28

It does depend what you mean by "have it all". No, life can't continue totally unfettered after a baby.

I think it is a very capitalist and of course, historically anti-women, notion to only value paid work outside of the home. I have fulfilling work - it's as caregiver to my DC, but I am also able to do voluntary work as well as help care for an elderly relative. If this kind of work - as opposed to a "job" or "employment" - was more valued (and we could all financially afford it and didn't need 2 salaries to raise a child) then I think more people would feel they did have it all.

I know there is an element of hyperbole in your posts, but with a supportive partner and no serious issues, there is no reason that maternity leave has to mean no adult conversation or personal fulfilment whatsoever.

NewAccount270219 · 24/08/2019 20:28

I do know what you mean about the initial force of parenthood hitting women much harder. DH was at home for the first 8 weeks of DS's life and I had this idea that this would mean we were 50-50 from the start. What actually followed was 8 weeks of me breastfeeding around the clock and realising that, while DH could do the cooking and cleaning etc, he couldn't actually do much babycare for this tiny baby who really just wanted boob. It was a massive, disorientating shock - we had never felt so unequal, and I had never felt so reduced to my biology.

BUT it does pass. He's 13 months now and I do feel that we're genuinely equal parents - massively facilitated by the fact that we did shared parental leave, so both had a stint at home alone. I think that period where I worked and DH didn't was transformative for us, but so, so few people do it.

ChristmasFluff · 24/08/2019 20:29

Oh, and I should point out that my career now would generally not be considered as successful as I was pre-son. But I do consider I have a great work/life balance now.

Having a child changed my priorities. If only the same would happen to men, the Earth might be a much lovelier place.

And @DesMartinsPetCat, I'm glad you've not experienced that, but sad you don't see that lack of experience as pure luck. Not everyone has someone to pick up the pieces when they are ill or overwhelmed.

formerbabe · 24/08/2019 20:29

I've come to the conclusion you need one of two things.

  1. A shit ton of money to be able to delegate the childcare and general drudgery.

Or

  1. Supportive family, usually grandparents who will do full time childcare. For example, I know a woman whose mother turns up every single day at 7am...looks after the dc and leaves at whatever time the parents return, in term time and school holidays. She does the housework too.

If you don't have one of these things, you're screwed.

Overall, I think nothing ruins women's lives like having children does.

NewAccount270219 · 24/08/2019 20:30

Oh, incidentally, I now work full-time (yes, with a one year old, yes, he was six months old, no, I don't care whether or not you could 'bear to do that') and the only time I feel miserable about it is when I let the judgement of others (almost always other women) get to me

autumnmeerkat · 24/08/2019 21:12

OP thank you for your post. I've been there too.

@NewAccount270219 - yes and yes!!! Especially the bit about other women's judgment. It's just such bullshit! We are our own worst enemies. I did three sessions at work when my second DC was 3 and 4 weeks old and the raised eyebrows I got for a half day each time were all from women. The men didn't bat an eyelid. DC honestly didn't care whether it was me or DH or my mum giving the bottle. DC was settled and loved and cuddled and I got a sanity break of concentrating very hard on a professional task for a few hours each time and feeling like "me".

OP your company treated you badly and that hasn't helped you. You may also be getting mixed messages from your family/upbringing. If you like your time with your DS's, that's absolutely fine. If you are starting to resent it, that's perfectly ok to feel like that too. You are not a bad mother if you feel like that! Ask yourself honestly what you would rather do to feel comfortable in your skin (I much prefer it to "having it all "- it's patronising bullshit designed for women to feel bad about themselves - look at The Man who Has It All on FB - I found the humour there really helpful when I started feeling like what you describe).

Once you have a wish list, start changing towards that. It might not be exactly how you planned (e.g you may need to go back to work full time, or change career path and offload home stuff to DH more - and if he doesn't accept that, then beware being kneecapped by his response/lack of support into feeling like YOU have to do it all).

Whosorrynow · 24/08/2019 21:17

Surely women can at least have paragraphs?

Toneitdown · 24/08/2019 21:22

Wealthy people can have it all

pennypineapple · 24/08/2019 21:22

@formerbabe surely there's also option 3: a partner who is willing to make the sacrifices in their career rather than expecting the mother to do it?

formerbabe · 24/08/2019 21:24

@formerbabe surely there's also option 3: a partner who is willing to make the sacrifices in their career rather than expecting the mother to do it?

Two people both working and sharing all domestic duties 50/50 still involves a lot of juggling, stress and sacrifice.

I believe child rearing and house keeping are a full time job in itself...

Ilikethisone · 24/08/2019 21:27

I did the career and single parenting on 24k per year. No help from parents, I dont speak to my own family.

The only 'help'I got was exh taking ds friday night to saturday afternoon. That's now stopped. Despite doing 50/50 when I lived with him, he decided the kids were my problem when I left. Dd is 16 so doesnt need childcare.

It was bloody tight and I had to move areas for a cheap mortgage.

24k isnt poor but its not wealthy.

MadameAlbert · 24/08/2019 21:31

Why the fuck are you crawling about the floor naked and eating scraps? You've become a mother, not some sort of feral Siberian wolf child.

museumum · 24/08/2019 21:32

Self employment.

None of my clients know my hour by hour movements. I get the work done. If I can’t speak on the phone at 3pm I could be in a big meeting with top directors for another more prestigious client or I could be at the school gate. Only I know.

Self employment isn’t easy. But it does free you from prejudices about “working mums”.

WineIsMyCarb · 24/08/2019 21:39

No-one of either sex can 'have it all'... at once. I think you have to do more of one and less of the other then switch it round when the opportunity / a better time comes along.

AgnesNaismith · 24/08/2019 21:40

YANBU.

I’m sure in some cases it’s possible to maintain a career and want to be the primary caregiver but from my experience these are few and far between. Businesses need to do more.

For me I can either fail in my career and parenting or I can win in one - again, I think this may be more to do with who I work for.

Hoolajerry · 24/08/2019 21:43

Yes there's biological differences that mean you give birth and have maternity time off but after that it should be equal
Don't know who said this up thread but it resonated with me because I do think there are fundamental biological differences and actually these don't just extend to the immediate aftermath of giving birth especially when one considers women often have multiple children.
I was a SAHP for quite a while. It was absolutely my choice and it over-rode my career ambitions. However now the children are older I don't feel the same need to be with them. I could have done it differently had I wanted/needed to but I didn't.
I do believe we have fundamental biological differences and that to deny these exist do a disservice to everyone.

Ilikethisone · 24/08/2019 22:02

Om so let's say we agree with those biological differences.

Maybe I am biologically flawed. But I didnt yearn to be at home. My yearn was to be financially independent so that I could always provide for me and my kids in the event i found myself single. Which is what happened.

But besides that we cant have it all ways. If women have a biological need to be at home shared parental care should be scrapped. But then women will lose out. Lose out on careers, pensions etc.

If we are going to agree women have a biological need to be the primary carer and to ignore that we do them a disservice, how can we then say that men need to be stepping up more in relation to child rearing.

Most families cant afford a sahp and a part time working parent. Therefore the father will have to work full time, giving him less time with his kids.

You see it in real life and on here all the time that men (generally) dont do enough when it comes to their kids, to support women in their careers. But to then turn round and say, we need to accept women have a biological need to be the carer, doesnt make sense.

There are lots of 'biological needs' that no longer form part of society.

Lazypuppy · 24/08/2019 22:12

I disagree.

Some women choose to prioritise their baby over career (change jobs/drop to part time etc) but that is a choice.

I chose to go back to work full time after 9 months. I did all my KIT days and made sure my team knew i was coming back and would be taking my workload back.
I refuse to always be the one to take time off when my dd is sick, my partner does equal share of days. I

I never wanted to stay at home full time with my dd, it wouldn't have been the best thing for either of us.

My financial independance is important to me, and having money to spend on my dd, save for her future, take her on holiday etc etc.

Its all choices, and everyone is different

Hoolajerry · 24/08/2019 22:12

There are lots of 'biological needs' that no longer form part of society.
Or that we have created a capitalist society which ignores historical biology where it is necessity to have two parents working. And subsequently we are evolving as a species to override that biology.

To be honest I haven't a fucking clue but I do feel that there is no right answer and that actually are actions are not necessarily driven by rational and logical decision making processes!

Hoolajerry · 24/08/2019 22:14

*our
And my grammar has failed too...

Sockworkshop · 24/08/2019 22:21

If we are talking about historical biology actually you will find that babies were taken to the fields etc as the mother continued to work or work,piece work for example,was done in the home.
Children were taught to sew and knit to bring in money and frequently cared for younger siblings.
Women in the family would care for each others children .
The idea that women would be so isolated in the home with their children is a fairly new one and nothing to do with biology.
I also think it has placed huge pressure on women.
Im afraid the crawling around naked,eating scraps and never going to the loo alone stuff is ridiculous though.

Ilikethisone · 24/08/2019 22:23

Or that we have created a capitalist society which ignores historical biology where it is necessity to have two parents working. And subsequently we are evolving as a species to override that biology.

All species evolve and their 'biology' changes. Even if we went back to days where one person at home was norm. I dont agree it should be the mother.

Again, are those of us who work and dont feel guilt or yearning to be at home biologically flawed? Or are we more evolved? Because out emotion suit our current environment better?

I have a career AND put my kids first, on the whole. My career was putting my kids first because I wanted to maintain financial responsibility. When exh lost the plot and I had to flee the property and he decided to be a total dick. I had us housed quickly never worried about bill. Arrange counselling for the kids could employ an excellent solicitor etc. It was still a difficult time. But nor worrying about paying the Bill's was a big weight off.

If my kids need me, I am there. Its easier now as dp is there and the kids are happy to ask him for help and support. Their dad hasn't really bothered in about 6 years.

Everyone has a different perception of what 'putting kids first' means. The same as having it all.

I do totally agree, there is not right or easy answer to any of this.

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