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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that women can't have it all..........

219 replies

Anon230982 · 24/08/2019 15:04

Before I had my sons I was on a sound educational/career pathway. I wasn't conflicted, I had singular purpose and no responsibility for anything else other than myself. I went to University, got a good degree and started with a job in social care, working for vulnerable adults. I quickly gained a good reputation with my clients, built positive relationships with colleagues and planned to undertake further professional training to progress my career. Then, in 2014, when I was 32 I had my first son. Suddenly, I was given mundane jobs at work, the secondment I was on wasn't extended and I left to have Baby No.1. I took nine months off...…..and experienced the life-changing transition that is becoming a parent. I had a trauma birth, suffered from post-natal anxiety and depression, and eventually, with the help of family and friends, defeated it and got level again. Then back to work. Juggled a very demanding role with the added responsibilities of parenthood, and developed the role to a high standard. My workload was the same on part-time hours as it would have been on full-time hours. When a senior position came up I went for it. Only to be told that I hadn't got it, but I was "an expert in my field." The person who was employed often tapped me for advice. No support from senior colleagues. Left work again in winter 2018 to have Baby no.2. Was told, by an elderly friend of my late Gran's, that "women can't have it all." At the time, I thought she was just a product of her generation but I've had time to think and reflect. Nature is old-fashioned; women naturally prioritise their babies over pretty much everything else. It's (usually) the woman who is the primary care-giver in the first year, who sacrifices her thoughts and actions and identity to the continuous demands of nurturing a little person. Men make a massive transition into parenthood as well, don't get me wrong but now having gone through it twice, I do believe life changes more completely for the woman. Women are primed by nature to sacrifice their own personal self for this purpose; all modern opinions on gender equality are kicked to the kerb. My husband leaves for work in the morning neatly groomed, looking like a respectable adult. I spend my days crawling around on the floor, half naked, eating scraps of food. I can't finish a sentence, or take a crap in peace. He has board meetings and runs a Team. I can just about remember the words to "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star," he delivers speeches and writes binary code for operational management. I can't remember what it's like to hold a conversation with another adult that doesn't involve the words "poo on my hands/awake all night/teething). I can't finish a cuppa. I manage to get dinner done, and look after my sons in the day. And to me, that feels like a massive achievement. Everything else has had to slide. When I do return to work I won't be the same person. That's no choice - it's old-fashioned nature at it's best - it's what motherhood has done to me. My values have changed, as well as my priorities. I'm a mum first - and something else second but I'm not sure what.That's not to say I'm unhappy. I'm probably the happiest I've ever been despite passing my days feeling like an unpaid domestic servant. (And a naked one at that.) But sometimes that lady's words come back to me when I see my husband suited and booted, going to work in the morning and I wonder, was she also trying tell me not to put too much expectation on myself...…..being a mum is the hardest job going and perhaps...….just perhaps for a limited time only you forego your modern right to equality at work...…...you're out of the game for a long time, long enough for someone else to fill your space and for you to lose a lot of work-related skill. There's a significant loss of work-confidence mothers often experience after giving birth and being on maternity leave. Going back into a professional environment where people expect you to deliver and be dressed isn't easy. Perhaps you can't have it all. Or maybe you can't have it all and be happy. What do others think?

OP posts:
Skittlenommer · 24/08/2019 17:13

Agree with PPs that say 'having it all' is relative..i don't want children, i have a career I love and a great home and partner. I feel like I have it all, but clearly my priorities and yours are different

Same!

VikVal · 24/08/2019 17:19

Depends how you define all...being blessed with healthy children, a roof over head and food on the plate is what I call having it all...People's definition is different. Having a husband just showed me what I dont need in order to have it all...Yes not all guys are bad, but again, just my experience.

PegasusReturns · 24/08/2019 17:20

Totally depends what "having it all" means.

I feel like I near as dammit do: lovely family, 4 DC and an exceptionally successful career. I took time off when my DC were pre school age. My DH took time off when they were a bit older.

BlodwynBludd · 24/08/2019 17:36

I agree with you op. Except for the field of work I could have written your post.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 24/08/2019 17:43

'Having it all' is a repulsive phrase which was doubtless coined in order to keep we upstart women - those who have the temerity to want a career, to be taken seriously in the workplace for our skills not our gender, and to receive equal pay for equal work - in our 'place'. In other words, we want only what men have taken for granted since time immemorial. But huge societal pressure is put upon women to choose either a career or motherhood and not think we can have both (witness the ad nasuem arguments between SAHMs and WOHMs slating each other for making different choices from the ones they personally find acceptable).

There's no such thing as 'having it all', no matter what your gender (although interestingly enough it's usually a phrase trotted out only in relation to females). As for 'doing it all', it's a question of what you're prepared to tolerate. Which brings to mind another phrase that makes my hackles rise and sets my teeth more-or-less permanently on edge. 'Wife work'.

Mincepies76 · 24/08/2019 17:52

I have 2 children and a reasonably senior job in the NHS. I was able to work part time when they were very young. I do have a dh and supportive parents!
Wouldn't say I have it all, but I have enough 😊

kittiesattack · 24/08/2019 17:54

*@itsbetterthanabox
*
Yes there's biological differences that mean you give birth and have maternity time off but after that it should be equal.
Why can't he go part time? Or take parental leave.
This is a choice not an inevitability

Exactly this

TabbyMumz · 24/08/2019 18:02

You can have as much or as little of having it all as you want to. I had children and moved up the career ladder, using great childminders and nurseries. It can be done.

ginyogarepeat · 24/08/2019 18:04

Women can have it all. Just not all at the same time.

Nanna50 · 24/08/2019 18:05

When I was growing up we were being told we could have it all. We could leave school and have a family and a career. At this point generally speaking, men were the breadwinners and most women were at home or maybe part time working. I think now, in reality rather than having it all, women are doing it all.

You don’t hear men saying they can have it all because they always have. Should the saying not be we can share it all? But that would mean the men would have to step up and in reality the majority have not.

There are few relationships where the man and woman genuinely share everything, maternity / paternity leave, childcare responsibility, housework, finances, career progression, leisure time and hobbies (just thought I’d slip that one in Wink) mental load etc.

I was a SAHM with my children and loved it, our home life was easier and one wage was enough to get by on. Many families don’t have that option now. By my standards I had it all, but I was frequently asked why I was at home and not working and felt a little uncomfortable saying because I bloody love being at home with my kids and making sausage plaits for dinner and doing housework.

pennypineapple · 24/08/2019 18:19

My husband leaves for work in the morning neatly groomed, looking like a respectable adult. I spend my days crawling around on the floor, half naked, eating scraps of food. I can't finish a sentence, or take a crap in peace. He has board meetings and runs a Team. I can just about remember the words to "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star," he delivers speeches and writes binary code for operational management.

That is really quite depressing. I'm a mother and I promise you that my husband's ability to string a sentence together is no better than mine.

I don't believe that women or men can "have it all", if having it all means being primary caregiver, having a high flying successful career and a great relationship with friends and family all at the same time. Everyone has to sacrifice something.

In your scenario, for example, your husband has sacrificed the opportunity to "crawl around on the floor, half naked, eating scraps of food" Confused

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 24/08/2019 18:26

Women can have it all. Just not all at the same time.

MYOB. I'll live my own life as I see fit, TYVM.

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 24/08/2019 18:45

I think the phrase "having it all" is misogynist bilge that doesn't deserve our headspace. Posters here are saying "depends what you mean by having it all" and of course, I get what you're saying but when the phrase was coined it very clearly referred to women having a career and a family. The assumption that every woman wants both those things and if she doesn't have one of them she'll be somehow incomplete is so patronising. I know SAHM's who are perfectly content with their lives and career minded child-free women who are equally content with theirs. Personally, I have DC and a job that I'm passionate about but that doesn't mean that I "have it all" and my child-free friends or SAHM are missing something. It just means our lives that we made different choices, our have gone in different directions because we wanted different things- men can do that without being pitted against each other and having the media come up with stupid catchy phrases though obviously.

daisyboocantoo · 24/08/2019 18:50

What @MinisterforCheekyFuckery said.

Everyone makes choices about their life and the situations that present themselves.

I worked with my first two children.
I stopped work after I had my third, have been a stay at home mum for the last six years (and had another baby who will start school in September).

DH has been flying at his career over the last 6 years.

I start a new job on Monday and have hired a cleaner to come daily so that I can come home to a clean home. Am petrified that I will flunk, but hoping it will be ok and my brain won't be mush.

daisyboocantoo · 24/08/2019 18:51

I think that the key is valuing the decisions that you have made, and recognition of the situation that you can make a choice.

Bringonspring · 24/08/2019 18:54

I couldn’t get to the end of your post OP-potentially you could have it all of you were sharper and more succinct

Two children for me and a job-I really do have it all but have priority and focus.

Xmasbaby11 · 24/08/2019 19:48

I 'have it all' and so do many of my female friends. I have 2dc, 5 and 7, and work 4 days a week in a satisfying job. I also have enough time for my dc, friends and interests. Dh works ft. We earn roughly the same. In my profession many of us work pt so it's not a problem and doesn't hold me back. I would say I have held back from applying for roles that are not family friendly e.g. working evenings or weekends, but that's because I want to see the dc and I'm happy with my current working hours.

kittiesattack · 24/08/2019 19:51

*@Stompythedinosaur *
If it was the norm for father's to do 50% of the housework and childcare, for jobs to be flexible and for childcare to be high quality and easily available I suspect we could get much closer to having it all.

This is my norm. I have 6 work trips across Europe coming up in the next 3 months - probably will be more. I was away with work last week, and will
Be next week. Frequently stay late at work for one think or another. Husband at the moment has all house responsibilities. We share at the weekend. But a few months ago he was away with the work and I did everything. Next year , he is away again and I will do more. It ebbs and flows as necessary. All money is shared. We earn almost the same. Me slightly more. I love my job. It is very demanding right now but it will settle. We are pretty much 50/50 in everything. Honesty I just never assumed it would be any different. Is my
dH unique? I hope not. My job is also pretty flexible and I work for a major international company. I have great childcare.

Trees2905 · 24/08/2019 19:58

I agree. Especially when your DP is a joy sapping sponger who takes everything you offer and more.

Goldenbear · 24/08/2019 20:03

I think you are probably right but I have a 'profession' now that I can potentially earn a lot more than my Architect DH in and you know what I really miss those baby days. I was at home a long time--8 years in total and really enjoyed it, I perhaps have a wholesome idea of what childhood should be like and I'm a big child at heart so I felt in my element. I recently had a miscarriage so I am truly gutted that that chapter of my life is over. I would prefer the third child to the 'profession' I'm in, even with all that that entails.

SignedUpJust4This · 24/08/2019 20:10

Having it all is a lie. Anyone with children has to compromise somewhere. And the current social and employment set up means men and women can miss out in different ways. Unfortunately many women have confused having it all with doing it all.

Ilikethisone · 24/08/2019 20:13

Women are primed by nature to sacrifice their own personal self for this purpose; all modern opinions on gender equality are kicked to the kerb.

I personally disagree with this. Its society that has conditioned that into us. We are social animals hundreds/thousands of years ago everyone had a job of sorts with in the family/village/community. Even if they had given birth.

However, society has decided that what makes a good mother is someone who puts her kids above everything, even if its not for the good of the family in some situations. That's where 'mummy guilt' comes from. Society and the pressure that is out on women.

The women = mother/homemaker and Man= bread winner/protector actually does neither sex any good.

The amount of older working women, at my work that took it upon themseleves to tell me they dont know how I could tear myself away from my child. It would have made them feel terrible etc. They very rarely liked my answer. That doesnt help mothers in the work place. Other women and mothers trying to make them feel shit. It may happen, but I have never had that shit from a man

Some companies are shit at dealing with pregnant women or women returning from maternity leave, which is another problem.

There ar major problems. But when both parents do 50/50 and both make sacrifices both parents can have it all. But it depends on what have it all means to you.

Iggly · 24/08/2019 20:13

Many men will tell you that you are lucky as a women to have all that time with your babies thst means that you can bond to a level that fathers rarely get at that stage

I doubt it.

This is about being a woman, a mother. As far as I’m concerned we biologically carry and grow our babies so the emotional connection with our dcs is different IMO compared with fathers.

We also have to recover from childbirth and labour - which takes longer than a few weeks.

Plus society is against women in general. Women do more of the unpaid, yet vital, labour which keeps the economy going. Yet we are undervalued and our full contributions are not appreciated by society.

I think we cannot have it all in a male dominated capitalist society where status and power is linked to certain occupations and a certain way of working.

mindutopia · 24/08/2019 20:16

You can have a great balance though with the right career and right partner who carries his load. I have a fantastic career. I make about twice the salary I made before I had my eldest 6 years ago. I also do work that I love and spent a lot of years training for. I work away a bit and I am home a bit doing everything with my dc each week. That also means on my busy days each week, my dh gets all the time with them. It works wonderfully. But it works because I love my career and would never give it up and because I have a dh who is as keen to be around for all the important stuff as I am.

No you can’t have it ‘all’ if it means being in two places at once, but if you’ve put the time in and have the right support, you can find a good balance.

ChristmasFluff · 24/08/2019 20:20

What I have found is that it is far easier to have it all without a man. From what I read here, I am not alone.

I remember re-reading 'The Women's Room' by Marilyn French, and I burst into tears, because when I first read it, I had no idea that one day I too would be eating my child's potato skin as my meal. And that was not the meal I would present his father with, oh no.

Women are SO capable. So many of us are unequally shackled.