Anti-vaxxers are neglecting their children?

[sallycinnamonn]

Having a conversation with a friend about this whole anti-vaxxers malarkey.

She made an interesting point saying when a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child, it should be seen as neglect, as they are failing to protect them and their wellbeing and are putting them at risk of disease/death. It should be considered neglect just as it would be if the parent was putting them at risk of disease/death through placing them in a inadequate, unsafe environment etc.

I don't agree with anti-vaxxers but have never thought about it this way before. What are your opinions on it being considered as neglect? I'm interested to see what others have to say about her opinion.

It's neglect, you're knowingly putting your child's health in danger and those around them.

They need to be compulsory for every child in the UK with some form of fine or punishment for missing them.

One discussion has been about all children in schools must have them but, I know a TEACHER (same age as me 26) who's parents never took her for vaccines.

It's neglect, you're knowingly putting your child's health in danger.....

In your opinion.

In their opinion though they would be putting their children at risk by giving the vaccine.

I don’t agree with children not being vaccinated but I respect the fact that the parents who choose not to are doing what they think is in the best interests for their child.

What this country needs is more education provided to new parents about the severity of the illnesses so that when the time comes that their baby is due their vaccine they know how vital it is. Face to face discussions antenatally about the importance of vaccines will be far more effective than uninformed parents turning to Google to do their own research.

I don’t believe any parent who chooses not to vaccinate is bring stupid or selfish (or whatever else they have been accused of being on this thread) but I just think it is down to them being poorly informed.

So until education is improved or vaccines are made mandatory then I don’t see any way forward.

Face to face discussions antenatally about the importance of vaccines

Are you happy for your taxes to be spent talking to parents for hours trying to convince them to vaccinate their own children?

Are you happy for your taxes to be spent talking to parents for hours trying to convince them to vaccinate their own children?

Wouldn’t you be if it saved the lives of God knows how many children?

Or is it the importance of vaccines only a big deal as long as it doesn’t affect us financially?

I support a parents right to choose whether to risk the disease or the vaccine, HOWEVER, I also believe that these unvaccinated children should not be allowed to attend nursery, school, university etc as they are both at risk and place a risk on others ( i.e they can catch and spread the disease to children who are too young to have the vaccination, elderly, pregnant etc).

I support a parents right to choose whether to risk the disease or the vaccine, HOWEVER, I also believe that these unvaccinated children should not be allowed to attend nursery, school, university etc as they are both at risk and place a risk on others

I think this is a sensible solution.

I do wonder why the vaccines aren’t made compulsory though? There must be a reason?

@WhentheRabbitsWentWild Easily. You may not have ever suffered any illnesses yourself, but you may well have carried them and passed them on to others to suffer long term consequences as a result, and you wouldn't even know.

And you dare call "survival of the fittest" here?? If that isn't the very definition of selfish, on behalf of both your parents and you, then I don't know what is. People like you disgust me, and yes, for the sake of all the babies out there who cannot have immunizations until they are older and could suffer disability or even die from things carried by you because of this, not because they weren't "fit" enough, (what an absolutely appalling attitude), you absolutely should be sanctioned.

If you haven't ever carried anything, it's because you benefited from the herd immunity brought about by others doing the right thing. Count yourself damn lucky - and that may not last now we are losing that herd immunity. Witches my arse.

@HugoAvril @FishCanFly

YOUR children are far more likely to get brain damage from measles now it's back than they ever would be from vaccinations.

Read some actual science, not internet conspiracy theories by people discredited 20 years ago, and then be grateful the rest of us are looking out for everyone's children, including yours, even if you are too selfish and easily taken in to do so.

@QueenofmyPrinces because the U.K. allows people bodily autonomy over their medical care- thank god- and children’s bodily autonomy is managed by their parents or guardians, not the state.

I don’t think we should be hiding away unvaccinated children. They’ll just be home educated or educated at sympathetic private schools such as Steiner or free schools

@QueenofmyPrinces
Why are vaccines not mandatory? Good question. This study says because they do not result in higher vaccination rates

“The impact of mandates in European countries has been assessed by the EU-funded ASSET project which found no clear link between vaccine uptake and mandatory vaccination. The report, which has been cited by the European Commission in response to questions from Members of the European Parliament states: ‘The enforcement of mandatory vaccinations does not appear to be relevant in determining childhood immunisation rate in the analysed countries. Those [countries] where a vaccination is mandatory do not usually reach better coverage than neighbour or similar countries where there is no legal obligation.’

ASSET experts have also argued that while mandatory vaccination might fix a short-term problem, it is not a long-term solution. Better organisation of health systems and strong communication strategies may prove more effective. ‘Mandatory vaccinations for both healthcare workers and the public can obtain a rapid improvement in immunisation rates, but in the end, have high costs, especially in term of litigation,’ says Dr Darina O’Flanagan, previous Director of Health Protection Surveillance Centre Ireland and a member of the Advisory Forum of the European Centre for Disease Control 2005-2016.

This is echoed by the EU Commissioner with responsibility for health, Dr Vytenis Andriukaitis ‘The legitimate goal of achieving the highest possible immunisation rates can be attained through less stringent policies, and most Member States prefer the adoption of ‘recommendation policies’ or else a mix of obligation/recommendation policies,’ according to EU Commissioner.”

because the U.K. allows people bodily autonomy over their medical care- thank god- and children’s bodily autonomy is managed by their parents or guardians, not the state

Oh I know that (I’m a leaf attic nurse) and I agree with parents having that right. I just meant it in a more general sense that if everyone on this thread, and other vaccination threads, are so sure that every child should be vaccinated, it should be compulsory and it’s neglect if parents choose not to do it, then why doesn’t the State feel the same? Mind you, they probably do they just know they can’t enforce anything.

And without the power to enforce anything then I guess we just need to accept that children will continue to go unvaccinated

*thats supposed to say I’m a paediatric nurse, not a leaf attic nurse

I'm resistant to too many things being centrally controlled and compulsory. I think it's taking responsibility and free choice away from individuals. Its expensive to police and what would appropriate punishments be?

Giving nurseries and schools the option to have a vaccine requirement for admission (with medical need exceptions) would keep the costs down for society and allow people freedom of choice.

I'm really thrown by the survival of the fittest statement. Its so offensive. I wonder how for those who support it take that philosophy in their own lives - for example are they fully financially independant not claiming any benefits?

I agree with the “survival of the fittest” comment. What a horrible, horrible way to talk about the preventable deaths of many children.

Leaf attic 🤣

I don’t like the idea of excluding the children, they’re being punished for their parents actions and denying them an education just sets them up for even more problems in life

In other cases of child neglect the state steps in to help and readdress the balance so neglected children have a chance of a better future.
In this case we’re suggesting making the outcomes for neglected children deliberately worse.

Every vaccination my DCs have had to have they have had as a parent I will do the best I can to protect my babies from deadly diseases and illnesses that can be preventable as well as trying to protect others that are at risk from low immune themselves and I'm shocked at the amount of parents that simply don't vaccinate their children have they not seen the horrific horror stories of children falling severely ill or even death it makes me mad as well that some can be so blinded by the risks they put others through for they're own selfish views

So, they doing tests of new universal flu vaccine.
Who here would take it in first release? Would you try it before or after your children? Would anyone here wait a few years to see how well it works? Would anyone never take it?

“The first clinical trial of an innovative universal influenza vaccine candidate is examining the vaccine’s safety and tolerability as well as its ability to induce an immune response in healthy volunteers. Scientists at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health, developed the experimental vaccine, known as H1ssF_3928
www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-first-human-trial-universal-influenza-vaccine-candidate

It all well and good to be outrage over vaccines like MMR proven safe over generations, but what about new vaccine?

Also, the flu vaccine is really to provide herd immunity to protect the elderly and immune compromised. Flu in young healthy people is hellish but rarely serious.

So I guess it’s even more pertinent to ask whether you’d trial a new vaccine on you children in the knowledge it isn’t even designed to protect them

Not neglect...

Because some parents can’t vaccinate their child for medical reasons..

And some choose to delay it also for medical reasons..!

It’s a grey area.

It is neglect yes.

I wrote a post recently. A family member and wife are of different opinions. Ye husband wants child vaccinated but wife is totally against. So child is unvaccinated. But they don't tell anyone out of embarrassment. This child is in a crèche, I'm unsure whether the crèche knows the truth or not.

@Passthecherrycoke
Good point on flu vaccine! It is more to prevent elderly deaths. But children taking on the risk (never zero risk). They will approve this vaccine in next few years....then decision for parents.

My children are vaccinated, I wasn't given the whooping cough one as a child due to scare reports and ended up gravely ill with it as a consequence, I know my mum in hindsight would rather I had been given it now. I do however feel uneasy about giving my kids the vaccines I don't know why but for now I'd rather trust my GP than a "doctor" on FB I've never heard of.

It all well and good to be outrage over vaccines like MMR proven safe over generations, but what about new vaccine?

The same procedures and safety and efficacy tests as for any other vaccine.

These days, delivery methods are very similar, well known and well tested.
These vaccines are not live or whole vaccines, but epitope based. That means that either small bits of protein or their equivalent in DNA is inserted in the vaccine. The risks are minimal.

Oh and to answer the question it's not neglect it's parental choice at the minute, I personally don't think it's a good one. The family does need to be flagged though to ensure the child's other medical needs are being met as that could be neglect. I do think it should be recorded that the are not vaccinated at school and let schools decide on whether they shall admit them.