Anti-vaxxers are neglecting their children?

[sallycinnamonn]

Having a conversation with a friend about this whole anti-vaxxers malarkey.

She made an interesting point saying when a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child, it should be seen as neglect, as they are failing to protect them and their wellbeing and are putting them at risk of disease/death. It should be considered neglect just as it would be if the parent was putting them at risk of disease/death through placing them in a inadequate, unsafe environment etc.

I don't agree with anti-vaxxers but have never thought about it this way before. What are your opinions on it being considered as neglect? I'm interested to see what others have to say about her opinion.

We should be like Australia-no jab no school.

@Lanurk I am Australian and that is entirely not a thing here. Every child in Australia is entitled to an education, as they should be. Sorry to disappoint.

Vaccines save lives - that is not just the view of the Government or drug companies but thousands of academic researchers and health charities worldwide.
If we lived in times where children died devastating deaths from measles and polio, we would be far more grateful for the impact vaccines have.
Not vaccinating your kids is unbelievably crap parenting - and puts others at risk.
I don’t think we should go to mandatory vaccines unless all other avenues have been explored, but I do think they could end up necessary.
This is one area where parents really don’t always know best. Too many people are swayed by apparent stories of supposed vaccine overload or somebody who knew somebody who claimed their child was damaged.
All medicines have a potential for risk but the overwhelming proof is that vaccines save lives

You may be thinking about New York in the US. As a result of preventing children from attending school in New York (as though the children were dirty or contagious) hundreds of kick ass parents stormed the education department building demanding a meeting with the powers that be to revoke the decision.

If you believe some children should be segregated based on YOUR irrational fears, you were possibly reincarnated from the likes of Jim Crow or Hitler. I don’t make that comparison lightly either. There is absolutely no evidence to show that segregating children based on vaccine status will benefit society. History shows us there will be countless negative impacts from ‘othering’ one group of people from another.

If anyone is interested in the history of vaccines, the efficacy and debunking myths around them I can highly recommend a podcast called This Podcast Will Kill You. Its produced by two epidemiologists. You'll have to scroll through a few episodes to find the two parts on vaccines but it is probably the most interesting thing I've ever listened to. If you can persuade anyone who has doubts about vaccines to listen to it then it may even help reassure them that it is the right thing to do.

Your comparisons to Jim Crow and Hitler are a) bullshit and b) offensive, @Nothankyounotforme. Holy fuck.

She has a point though. Refusing to educate children because their parents made poor decisions?

Child protection measures are supposed to improve a child’s life, not make it worse.

That’s just the government neglecting them too

I think it's ridiculous to call it neglect and this is a example of modern day religious zealots trying to exert their superiority on other people. Different subject, same behaviour.
It is however a lack of social responsibility not to join in with herd vaccination programmes, I guess some people feel their reasons what ever they are are more important that social responsibility.

Yes it’s neglect.

I always find the need for a label a bit weird. So if after 10 pages we agree it’s neglect.... then what? It’s just a label

I agree completely

I have vaccinated my children and feel strongly about protecting vulnerable children/people against the horrors of the diseases. However, this evangelical 'make it a legal requirement and charge them with neglect' is a terrifying development - we can't force parents to inject their child with anything and nor should we be. It's a terrifying thought that the government can force us to do that, the potential to do harm when that escalates is mindblowingly awful.

And I also know someone who ended up with brain damage and life changing disabilities from a vaccine, it's rare yes, but it does happen.

So if after 10 pages we agree it’s neglect.... then what? It’s just a label

At some point public opinion would justify putting it into law. And it could become mandatory to vaccinate children. That's the ultimate implication.

How could it be mandatory to vaccinate? What would be the ultimate enforcement, handcuffing children to a hospital bed, reminiscent of forced abortions for the enforcement of the one child policy in China? Even they stopped doing that

Neglect is complicated and multifaceted, but no single cause will lead to intervention. It should be something that raises a red flag, but won't be with weak ineffective politicians not especially caring about the most vulnerable immune suppressed who are the actual victims of antivaxxers being determined to keep childhood disease and death in fashion. But, like all situations involving a neglectful action it should be considered in context.

Personally I do think public schools should not be accessible to those refusing vaccines because that child is then not only unprotected, they are being flung into a situation where infection likelihood is increased and they put other immune suppressed children at risk to.

But my point. Like yours is unreasonable.
It's all well and good to morally consider antivaxxers to be neglectful of their child's health (which I do) but how could that work in practice? And of course the numbers are not currently significant enough for the politicians to give a flying fuck.

@NotACleverName So what? How do you honestly think that scenario would play out? To think there are grown adults so invested in their own fear they would happily refuse certain children an education is just unfathomable to me. And what next? Ostracism from society all together? The inability to get a job? Can’t drink from the same drink taps for fear of measles?

You need to think your thought processes through.

Exactly. Imagine how awful these children’s entire lives would be without an education. This country is better than that

I agree it is neglect.

I am so done with anti vaxx wankers and their anti scientific bollocks.

It is neglect in the same way feeding them nothing but shit food. It’s avoidably putting their health at risk and that of others too.

People believe anything in spite of evidence, hence why millions of baby boys have their genitals mutilated because it says so in a book written by an ancient tribe. It’s why some children are called witches and left to starve. It’s all the on a spectrum in my view

Forcibly medicating children is hard to swallow. It’s the parents fault , maybe schools could insist on seeing vaccination records before admittance.

If they refuse then they will have to hone school them, I’m betting not many people would be willing to go that far

@Northernsoullover I’m half way through part 1 and I’ve heard nothing ground breaking yet.

Their explanation of herd immunity at 20.40 just didn’t make sense because they’ve completely glossed over the fact that vaccinated people also become infected.

@23.50 they mention mmr and varicella as live virus vaccines that can’t be given to immunocompromised people. There is no test available to determine who is immunocompromised (also, no mention of this).

@26.30 they admit that the live virus vaccine can be transmitted to immunocompromised people (I imagine the criteria for immunocompromised people is vast but undefined). This means vaccinated people are at risk of infecting others..

This didn’t teach me anything I haven’t already heard. Disappointed.

@Jasonh but homeschooling doesn’t have to involve anything. There is nothing to ensure they get an education

Anyone who thinks the appropriate way to punish these parents is to deny their children an education which will mean they are seriously disadvantaged for the rest of their life either has hitler tendencies or hasn’t thought it through properly.

No I don’t agree.

I think not getting medical treatment is neglectful but I dont think preventative treatment falls into the same category.

The default action is to be unvaccinated.

People need to make their own choice and I don’t think we should be taking this choice away. And I know about the herd immunity argument but I still don’t think the right of the individual to chose/not choose a medical procedure should be abolished for the protection of the herd. The herd can be protected in other ways.

Just another symptom of our individualistic society. Being vaccinated is not just about you and your family, it's about protecting the wider community and getting rid of these horrible diseases for good. Not sure about neglect but it's certainly selfish.