to think we need to knock the bacteria bothering on the head?

[OtraCosaMariposa]

So unless you've been living under a rock we all know that single use plastics are bad, too much air travel is bad and that we're killing the planet with "stuff".

Just as important is the fact that bacteria are becoming resistant and that we haven't the new antibiotics to fight them. I know a lot of this si down to misuse of antibiotics, people not finishing the course or keeping old medication and popping it when they feel off colour. But I also think a lot of it is down to the sheer range of "anti-bacterial" products on sale.

The latest advert which really gave me the rage was for an anti-bacterial carpet cleaner, think it was Vax, which droned on about did you know how much BACTERIA there is in your carpet accompanied by pictures of children playing on the floor. Just like the "ewww, bacteria on your washing!!" adverts.

Do we really need to nuke all bacteria out of existence? Or do we collectively not need to chill out a bit, stop the paranoia about germs/bacteria and go back to basic cleaning with soap and water??

Anti-bac is banned in this house.

I am also rediscovering the joy of solid soaps, we were on holiday in continental Europe in the summer and I bought lots of colourful bars of soap in a market. Cheap as chips too, think it was something like 1.50 euro each, or 10 bars for 10 euros. Lovely stuff, lasts forever, smells gorgeous, no wrapping except the paper bag the stallholder put them in.

Why on earth did I ever start using shower gel in the first place? No idea.

Also agree that people dying in the past was more due to the fact we didn't have the knowledge. It was only in the mid 1800s that people sussed out that it wasn't bad smells in water which made you ill, it was little microorganisms. People were absolutely dying of things like TB and scarlet fever which are now easily treated with antibiotics.

But if we carry on nuking bacteria and encouraging them to mutate and adapt, we're going to run out of antibiotics when we really need them. And we really need antibiotics to treat nasty, life-threatening infection, not to wipe down your telly or kitchen counter.

@Sicktobloodydeath here is my very lax routine if it helps
Hoover
Dust with duster, sometimes a bit of pledge, same on mirrors
Windows I use a glass window spray
I do use viakal on the shower door only as it gets grim
Eco loo cleaner and all purpose cleaner - you might like the all purpose one as you can get it in different scents, it's natural and I have baby power fragrance!
Mostly I use hot water and the all purpose cleaner, and then specific products like mould spray only if needed
Carpet cleaner only if the cat is sick!

for every cell that's ours in our body we host a bacterial cell too. our natural microbiome is way more complex than we currently understand.

we are just making some small changes now, bar of soap instead of liquid handwash, no bottles of water, stopped using wipes for anything - as PP said cloth with hot water and washing up liquid does a great job in the kitchen and for damp dusting. There are a few things I will struggle to do but slowly we are making changes

What do people use to wipe down their mobile phones as they are meant to be the most germ ridden thing in the house?

F

An interesting and informative thread with no trolling

No one has mentioned how useful some essential oils are to keep us and our houses clean, in an environmentally friendly way. I use T tree a lot, and, used properly, it's not harmful at all; it's the only way to cure hospital MRSA.

Of course the drug companies don' t make huge profits from it so it gets no publicity. I'm not in the biz. Lavender oil is also an incredible help for insect bites , burns etc etc.

I don't wipe down my phone......

If the screen is particularly manky with fingermarks I just rub it on my top or jeans. Any liquids or wipes in close proximity to tech isn't a good combination, in my experience!!

That's what I do Otra, didn't know if there was something else I could be doing

I know some people use glasses wipes, the sort you use to clean your specs, not for the windows. But again, single use, loads of packaging etc etc.

Did anyone ever get ill from manky mobiles?

What's wrong with using bleach? I don't use it very often but am wondering.

Re: phones my dad always has computer screen spray cleaner and microfibles cloths around (IT technician) so I give my gadgets a wipe when I visit. DHs glasses cleaner and a flannel also works.

I like to clean with a mix of lemon juice and vinegar but I have to be careful not to use too much vinegar or it smells.

More environment related than germ related, I've managed to rescue lots of baby clothes by soaking them in water with a tiny bit of bleach - I think using a bit of bleach is better than throwing clothes away environment (and cost) wise?

Surelyvsoap and vingar and all these alternatives are antibacterial. They might be bettr for the planet (dont know)

Can bacteria become resistant to bleach?

The latest advert which really gave me the rage was for an anti-bacterial carpet cleaner 'But what our carpets?'

I use T tree a lot, and, used properly, it's not harmful at all; it's the only way to cure hospital MRSA.

This is true, but they will also eventually become resistant to it. Bacteria will become resistant to absolutely anything you use to kill them.

I don't clean my phone either.

I sort of think why does it matter if it's the dirtiest thing in the house if it's not making me ill?

I'm very much in the camp of exposure to things leading to a strong immune system.

We use bleach in our toilet. A general bathroom cleaner. Method in the kitchen and on hard floors. All done with cloths that get washed afterwards - the bathroom cloth is a different colour so we don't use it in the kitchen or whatever but they all go in the washing machine together 🤷🏻‍♀️

Carpet cleaner only when cats have been sick. We do clean the downstairs rug fully with a Vax every few months but that's because it's cream and starts to look dirty (with four cats) not because of 'germs'.

No air fresheners or plug ins - I can't imagine breathing in chemicals all the time can do you any good.

Other than kitchen surfaces we only clean once a week as we work long hours.

Can bacteria become resistant to bleach?

Sort of. Bleach targets so many processes in the bacterial cell that it's very difficult for them to produce mechanisms to overcome it. They can however form biofilms, which are big thick mats of bacterial cells, which basically stop the bleach getting to them.

I suspect one of the issues with commercial products is that they come up with products that genuinely work for the purpose they are marketing them for but....as they don't have experts working for them on all the ways that product will have an impact.

So...they have experts to come up with something that is the 'best ever' way of killing 'germs' in the bathroom but...

• They don't have any expertise in the impact that will have if inhaled frequently over a long period of time

• They don't know what the impact will be on the accumulation of it in rivers on plant and aquatic life over time

• They don't necessarily look at the wider impact of how using those products every day might impact child immune systems

So we end up with brilliant cleaning products with all kinds of awful impacts on the environment and human health.

Plus marketing people know that germs worry people. So saying "this product can kill 99% of all germs" is going to make people listen far more than talking about a product's fragrance, or packaging, or the chemicals used to make it.

The problem with things killing "99%" or "99.9%" of bacteria is that the 1% or 0.1% left will still multiply exponentially and those might well be the resistant ones, resulting in resistance spreading. And then of course there are viruses!

Sicktobloodydeath you will drive yourself insane if you try to sustain that.

We both work full time, plus a business, a baby and an older kid so we have a cleaner a couple of times a week now which means our cleaning routine is something like:

Laundry done with non bio only
Kitchen worktops wiped most days with method
Dishes washed with fairy (or in dishwasher), sink wiped over daily
Hob wiped with method or fairy maybe 3 times a week
Cupboard fronts twice a week with method
Kitchen sink bleached once a week (white and stains easily)
Hard floors done with a steam mop 3x a week
Floors and rugs hoovered most days (4 long haired cats)
Oven wiped once a week, proper clean monthly
Inside of fridge cleaned with fairy/method every 2-3 weeks

Toilets cleaned twice a week (i think cleaner uses bleach in the actual loos)
Bathroom cleaned with method twice a week
Very occasional bleaching around edge of bath to get rid of mould

Obviously other rooms get cleaned too but that gives an idea.

Our baby girl is as healthy as can be bar a dairy allergy present since birth, and her big sister is totally allergy and asthma free and rarely gets sick

Oh and we do have a proper carpet cleaner because the cats have a habit of vomiting. It's used to clean stains, and maybe every 6 months on the very pale livingroom rug. Bedroom carpets have been done once in the year I've had it

I knew there was a benefit to being slovenly.

Really hope you take something positive from this @Sicktobloodydeath .. I found reading your list quite frightening. You're at risk of dong infinitely more damage to your family than what a few germs could do. Hope all goes well with the baby..whack that insane toxic bleaching/zoflora/antibacterial habit on the head asap!

We have animals, lots of them and a septic tank. All I use here is vinegar and water to spray surfaces with and Castile soap and water for hand washing. Only vinegar or citric acid in the loo to get rid of limescale.