to think we need to knock the bacteria bothering on the head?

[OtraCosaMariposa]

So unless you've been living under a rock we all know that single use plastics are bad, too much air travel is bad and that we're killing the planet with "stuff".

Just as important is the fact that bacteria are becoming resistant and that we haven't the new antibiotics to fight them. I know a lot of this si down to misuse of antibiotics, people not finishing the course or keeping old medication and popping it when they feel off colour. But I also think a lot of it is down to the sheer range of "anti-bacterial" products on sale.

The latest advert which really gave me the rage was for an anti-bacterial carpet cleaner, think it was Vax, which droned on about did you know how much BACTERIA there is in your carpet accompanied by pictures of children playing on the floor. Just like the "ewww, bacteria on your washing!!" adverts.

Do we really need to nuke all bacteria out of existence? Or do we collectively not need to chill out a bit, stop the paranoia about germs/bacteria and go back to basic cleaning with soap and water??

Anti-bac is banned in this house.

@Hotbiscuits Isn't it? And from such an eminent researcher too, it really deserves to have as many people read it as possible. I also like to use it to justify putting off hoovering

@ineedaholidaynow thanks! I’m going to show DP this thread later when he gets home and let him know he’s been right all along 😂 I honestly believed everybody cleaned like this.

I work for a bank, and don’t even get me started on the filth in my office we have a mouse infestation that I’ve actually walked out several times over. I spend a good 20 minutes each day disinfecting my desk. For one of the leading banks it’s 100% not acceptable the state the offices are in

@SeaSaltandLime thank you, I really am starting to understand the impact it’s having reading these comments.
I forgot to mention I have uncontrollable asthma and several allergies which is why I’m getting induced 3 weeks early as i am struggling to breathe and short of breath 90% of the time I really really will reign it in after reading the dangers, it’s funny because I’m normally the first person to talk about carcinogens and stuff it’s never actually occurred to me to research the chemicals in cleaning products - I’m off to do so!

@Sicktobloodydeath please please please try and reduce the amount of cleaning you do and the chemicals you use. Your new baby's fragile lungs will be breathing in a bunch of toxic crap that we are in no way evolved to deal with. And for your own sake as well, there's a study linking working as a cleaner with a much higher instance of certain cancers, and you are probably getting as much exposure as many people who work full time as cleaners.
Plus, you get one precious life, please don't spent it this way.

I pretty much just clean with water, I vacuum around once a week, maybe a bit of Method or Ecover in the bathrooms but I also like to use vinegar, bicarb or lemon juice. And that's it! And I pretty much never get colds and never get an upset stomach.

It really is quite a worry, we fill our houses with terrible harmful chemicals thinking they are keeping us clean and healthy. My dsis runs her own cleaning company, she has tried using eco friendly products but her clients just are not interested. Last year she had a terrible reaction to one of the harsh cleaning products she uses and ended up covered in hives for months, steroids were the only medication which cleared it up.
I do not buy into this ant-bac this and that at all. My house is tidy and relatively clean but only with eco friendly products and I don’t use them all the time, as for cleaning our rugs and carpets pffff! Never, the dog loves a good ole daily roll and rub on our living room rug, the same rug our kids will play on. And our dog sleeps on our bed. Mrs Hinch and that Lindsay Queen of Clean woman would have a fit, those bloody women are doing more harm than good.
And don’t get me going on the over use of antibiotics, my friend was going abroad on holiday a few weeks back and was worried she may get a flare up of a tooth infection (she had one earlier this year) so asked her dentist for some antibiotics to take for ‘just incase’ and her bloody dentist gave her some!!

I agree it's mental. Mrs Hinch craze not helped as her army dousing their homes in zoflora and mixing chemicals in their sinks.

Most people don't realise that soap and water and a bit of scrubbing can kill harmful bacteria as it breaks down the cellular membrane.

I'm sure that some countries use antibiotics on livestock with wild abandon, but the UK are tackling the problem. UK farmers were set a target for reducing antibiotic usage and reached it 2 years early and are still working to reduce it further.
I realise that it is easy to blame farmers for all the problems that the world faces. Farmers are cruel to their animals and welfare standards are appalling but then people moan when they treat ill animals. Farmers in this country don't choose to use antibiotics lightly, there is no NHS for animals and antibiotics are not cheap and let's remember that farmers are notoriously tight.
Let's see the NHS reduce antibiotic usage by 25%.
In some European countries you don't even need a prescription for antibiotics, just a chat with a pharmacist.

I honestly believed everybody cleaned like this I don't know anyone who cleans like that! If you did half what you do it would be more than my neatest/cleanest friend.

@SeroxatBlonde I’ve just called DP while he’s at work and told him all of this - he’s obviously thrown the “I told you so” card 😂. He then said “maybe now you’ll piss off with all your scented candles and plug ins and I can spend a day without a headache” 🙈 my god I didn’t realise how bad it was

About half the DNA in your body is bacterial....and certainly less than half the DNA in your body is human!

We are a colony organism...we need our bacterial to live.

The main thing protecting you from infection is your own bacterial population....look after them and they will look after you.

sicktobloodydeath

dd2 has asthma and I cannot use any scented air freshners in the home or she is triggered. They are really really bad for breathing problems.

@Sicktobloodydeath I'm so glad you're taking all of this on board. I get a banging headache from plug in sprays and they just fill your home with yet more nasty chemicals.

He then said “maybe now you’ll piss off with all your scented candles and plug ins and I can spend a day without a headache”

That's funny 😂 Ditch the plug ins, that alone will be so bad for your asthma!

We live on the dirty side of acceptable, though we are slowly grinding our standards up to something more in the normal range.

DD has had 2 bouts of illness in her 8 years of life - both viral and clearly caught off other children, once at Center Parcs and the other from someone in a yoga class. The second bout was 5 years after the first and DD had apparently entirely forgotten what feeling sick or throwing up was like. She had no idea what was happening! She has now thrown up 6 times in her life....

She also doesn't seem to react to colds DH and I get either. I feel like keepign the house reasonably (but not very) dirty while your kid is a toddler is actually a great idea (although we didn't have pets - which does make a big difference).

Oh and as for candles, try and buy soy based. Paraffin based ones will kindly fill your home up with benzene.

I think Sicktobloodydeath wins the award for the most reasonable poster on MN this week

If animal production is the main problem, why are most superbugs found in hospitals?

They aren't , they're mostly found in the soil, hospitals are just where you see the effects of them because of all the coming and going and sick people bundled in together.

I'm nearly sure they traced it back to less hand washing which means soap and hot water would prevent it?

Yes, it's spread via the faecal oral route so handwashing is the main preventative. But once it's already there, rinsing over with a bit of soap won't get rid of it sufficiently to prevent further infection. Official recommendations require bleach first.

I'm a microbiologist whose speciality is the microbiome of human environments and its effect on infection prevention. I'm somewhere in the middle here - I'm all about handwashing, etc, but if you aren't using proper cleaning products in e.g. the bathroom, then honestly your entire bathroom is covered in faecal particles and the various bugs who live in there. Usually ok if it's just your family and noone is sick, not ok if they belong to anyone you don't come into regular contact with.

Bear in mind, when assiduously wiping down surfaces with anti-bac wipes, and rubbing-in anti-bac handgel after using toilets, that colds, flu, and most D&V illnesses are caused by viruses.

'Anti-bacterial' - the clue is in the name.

I agree. I’m
Not a fan of anti-bac stuff and generally use Method cleaning stuff and have just switched to normal soap over dispensers in my bathroom/loo.

Oh Sicktodeath, please ease off the cleaning and just spend time with your baby. Your DH is spot on with comments about chemical warfare. It's not healthy. Even halving or quartering the products you're using would mean you're still using a lot more than most people.

Also understand why people with dogs or 11 cats (!) feel they need to wipe up more often. But again, they don't need anti-bac single use wipes to do that. Soap and water.

Also think there's probably demand for eco-friendly cleaning services. We have a cleaner, she uses mostly Stardrops which I don't think markets itself as anti-bac and has been around a lot longer than your Flash, Mr Muscle brands.

Laundry is another issue - you only have to read a "how often do you wash your sheets" thread to see there are people washing towels, sheets and god knows what else daily, at high temperatures and using bleach/anti-bac washing powder too.

We have ditched hand wash and shower gel too and have gone back to bars if soap,I'd forgotten how lovely they are.

Well to be fair a lot of people also died of diseases that anti bac might have prevented.

I'm not saying this is wrong as I'm not an expert but my understanding is that this isn't to do with anti-bac at all.

It's a combination of:

• Clean running water accessible in the home
• Preventative vaccinations
• Better treatments (antibiotics, penicillin, etc)

We'd stopped dying of a lot of things in the 50s and I don't think(?) people were using a lot of anti-bacterial products then.

@SeroxatBlonde funny you should say that, my craving in pregnancy has been bars of soap 🙈😂 not to eat maybe the occasional lick more just foaming them up on a shower puff and smelling them. I think it’s the texture! I have been using natural ones mind.

OP, congratulations on a MN post that’s brought on a productive conversation, not had any nastiness or judging and has actually got results! I never thought I’d see the day.

sicktobloodydeath I'm so impressed that you are taking this on board. I hope you manage to reign yourself in & enjoy your baby.

Sicktobloodydeath I too am glad you are taking this on board.

One thing I would be aware of, though, is once your baby is here the urge to clean may become even more compulsive especially once baby starts putting things in their mouth and crawling. I am no clean freak but I remember wondering how I sterilised a saucepan before cooking carrots in it when I started weaning DS

I would be roping in support from your DP and possibly a couple of your closest friends. Tell them that you now realise that your cleaning has now become an obsession, and is no longer a joke, and can they help you keep a more normal routine. The last thing you will need is a friend coming to visit your house and joke that they can see a slightly off white sink or a mark on the bannister to set you back in your old ways.

Just remember the reason you clean like you do is down to the way you were brought up, don't follow that pattern. Is your DM still around?

If it all becomes overwhelming I would speak to either your midwife or health visitor too.