to think we need to knock the bacteria bothering on the head?

[OtraCosaMariposa]

So unless you've been living under a rock we all know that single use plastics are bad, too much air travel is bad and that we're killing the planet with "stuff".

Just as important is the fact that bacteria are becoming resistant and that we haven't the new antibiotics to fight them. I know a lot of this si down to misuse of antibiotics, people not finishing the course or keeping old medication and popping it when they feel off colour. But I also think a lot of it is down to the sheer range of "anti-bacterial" products on sale.

The latest advert which really gave me the rage was for an anti-bacterial carpet cleaner, think it was Vax, which droned on about did you know how much BACTERIA there is in your carpet accompanied by pictures of children playing on the floor. Just like the "ewww, bacteria on your washing!!" adverts.

Do we really need to nuke all bacteria out of existence? Or do we collectively not need to chill out a bit, stop the paranoia about germs/bacteria and go back to basic cleaning with soap and water??

Anti-bac is banned in this house.

I think people get really anxious when the word bacteria is used as they think its all bad, when in fact there's more good bacteria than bad.

A lot of this comes down to common sense though... Cleaning thoroughly with soap and water, good hand hygiene etc

Totally agree OP.

Soap & water has been proven to work very efficiently - better than alcohol gel if done properly because of the mechanical removal of bacteria as well. I know we aren't talking about gels here, but fyi, they don't kill norovirus. Soap & water does.

IIRC antibiotic resistance is mostly caused by animal agriculture

I was always told that you only ever use hand gel when there's not an option to wash your hands in the normal way. We sent DS off with some when he was doing his D of E expedition in the middle of nowhere with no running water. But we don't use it at all in everyday life.

That's exactly it with hand gel... It should be just used if there is no other way of washing your hands.
Think I saw a study into it awhile ago where they used UV light to prove that it wasn't as effective as proper hand washing

No antibacterial cleaners in this house either. Lots of antibac sprays aren't used properly in my experience so the antibac doesn't have a chance to work.

Isn't all that antibac hand gel pretty much useless if it's not used on clean hands?

A few bacteria help rather than harm you! I have always been an advocate of not having an overly clean house and we are very healthy as a family!

Some of it is the whole Hinch thing, I think; she's essentially encouraging a whole generation of people to live compulsively cleanly to the point where cleaning becomes a competitive hobby. People my age genuinely hashtag their cleaning on Instagram like they invented the wheel. People have been cleaning bathrooms for years without announcing it on social media.

I clean up every day; I wash down the worktops and hoover daily because we have pets. I don't buy antibac products simply because both DC had eczema when they were small and anything strong set them off, and nobody's died of anything terrible yet.

In my classroom the only time I've used antibac is when we had a terrible stomach bug go through the whole school; there needs to be a far bigger emphasis on teaching young children hygiene. Before we eat snacks we all wash our hands at the sink in the classroom, before lunch we wash again. It sounds simplistic but teaching hygiene in an eco-friendly way has got to be better than spraying god knows what around once they've gone home.

"We do have a bottle of bleach for cleaning the loo but it is uses very very sparingly and a bottle lasts over a month."

I have one bottle of bleach, and I think it's the only one I've bought since we moved in years ago! One person's sparingly is another's frequent and plentiful.

I avoid anti-bac products, but have noticed that just recently it's become harder to do so. Want a bought multi-purpose cleaning spray? You'll have to look quite hard now. Which is a shame, because the rise in anti-bac is creasing just as the warning bells are being rung louder. (Yes I know manufacturers are not responsible for public health or future wellbeing, I'm just noting this as a pity and an example of how hard it is to make even important changes in consumption)

I am living proof that over-cleaning breeds allergies and asthma! My mum sterilised everything I touched (and probably everything I even looked at) until I was 4 years old. Yep, that's right. Every cup, plate, spoon, toy etc had been soaked in milton. The one soft toy I had as a baby was washed at 90 degrees with all my bedding. We had hard floors which were washed with pine disinfectant twice a day, more when I started crawling. I still hate the smell of it now.

I had no allergies or asthma as a child, but as an adult have been diagnosed with 14 different allergies and I have severe asthma which doesn't respond well to regular treatment. I'm currently under addenbrookes difficult asthma clinic, and the consultant said it was 'highly likely' it was caused by not being exposed to enough bacteria as a child.

She wasn't quite so paranoid about germs with my (much) older sisters, and they're both fine I know now that my mum wasn't very well at the time, her youngest sister had just died and her grief manifested itself as OCD.

My house is filthy by most peoples standards. Dog hair everywhere, mud tracked in constantly. No bleach. I do scrub the bogs regularly. No antibac anything apart from dettol stuff occasionally in the washing machine to stop sports kit smelling. have three teens and none of us have EVER had d and v

Norovirus isn't a bacterium, it's a virus. One of the most infectious around - only around 10 particles needed to infect someone. I wouldn't trust a rinse around with soap and water to prevent it.

Hand gel is most important for doctors, even if you wash your hands regularly, a lot of other people don't and therefore everything we touch is contaminated with faecal bacteria. Obviously for doctors working with patients, that means hand washing and regular hand gel after coming into contact with pretty much anything. It's now been coopted by germophobes.

And @smoothy is right that agriculture is the main culprit. Technically speaking antibacterials aren't the same as antibiotics so the resistance isn't the same thing (although it's a bit more complicated, bacteria tend to transfer their resistances to things 'in bulk' shall we say)

The dirtiest thing in your life is your mobile phone. I'd wipe that down regularly.

I love my wipes

They don't love you back.

Totally agree OP. I watch these ads and think FGS bacteria are everywhere, if you're on a mission to rid yourself of all bacteria in your home you're on a hiding to nothing and the chemicals which you are dousing your house in are probably far more toxic than normal bacteria which has survived on the planet for 1000s of years.

We just use soap and hot water and try and avoid all anti bac products.

My DP is a microbiologist, and regularly has to take swabs of places in the labs to test on agar plates how much bacterial growth there is and to improve cleanliness in the labs.

Because of his advice on healthy vs unhealthy bacteria and that we have an under one year old, we use handwash, antibacterial wipes in the bathroom/on the changing mat, disinfect spray for the animals hutches/litter tray, method anti bacterial for food areas and babies jumperoo and bleach only the toilet. To DP, this is a sensible way of managing cleaning in our home.

He also recommends to never use bleach anywhere but a toilet, that things like zoflora don't actually work and are just marketing rubbish. That clothes never need dettol, your carpets are healthily clean enough to lick generally unless you regularly walk dog poo over them, and that handwash won't really make a difference what it is (we just can't seem to find non-antibacterial ones) as long as it's soap, you're fine, except maybe for a surgeon or something.

Basically, there's a reason there's fewer diseases going around this century, like cholera and diphtheria. But there's also a reason for more allergies. So it's a tough one.

Peoples obsessions with cleanliness is now believed by scientists to be a significant contributing factor to childhood leukaemia. Children are meant to be exposed to normal bacteria in their environment. Their immune systems are meant to be challenged to work out self from non self. It is absolutely no wonder at all that children who live in hyper sterile environments get immune systems that go haywire. Theres being sensible about potential pathogens (avoiding raw chicken, appropriate measures after a case of D&V etc) and then theres being batshit about cleanliness to the detriment of your own health.

We need bacteria to survive.
Also anti bacteria is banned in our house.
Good old soap and water is the best solution.

there's also a reason for more allergies

There's not much credible evidence that this is caused by cleanliness. Current thinking is it more likely caused by a lack of worm infections.

Interestingly, I had never had hayfever or any allergies at all and I grew up on a small holding with lots of animals about and our house was never particularly clean or pristine (apart from our bedding that was changed weekly.) At 20 I moved out and was absolutely religious about antibaccing and bleaching everything. We lived there for about 4 years then moved home to save for a mortgage. I developed hayfever when I moved back. I absolutely think it is related!

Also, recently at my hygienist I was told to scale it back as I was removing all the bacteria from my mouth and I needed good bacteria in my mouth. I only floss, brush twice and use mouthwash. She said to stop using mouthwash so often! I was shocked tbh. Seeing her in a few months so will see what she says this time!

YANBU.

I would have thought the combination of water and carpet is a veritable breeding ground for bacteria, especially in a warm or central heated house.

Years ago we always played on the carpet and in many cases it wouldn't have been down for years and years and never have been wet-cleaned. I'm still here.

Some of it is the whole Hinch thing, I think; she's essentially encouraging a whole generation of people to live compulsively cleanly to the point where cleaning becomes a competitive hobby.

I don't understand why you'd want to watch someone else cleaning but I don't think she's to blame. The competitive cleaning thing has been around longer than that, we all used to watch How Clean is your House and all the anti-bac products pre-date social media. She's just cashing in on an existing trend.

I also think a lot of rules/legislation are OTT, I used to be on the committee of a local preschool, the environmental health insisted on anti-bac on all surfaces before the children ate, high concentrations of anti-bac washing up liquid, sterilising everything to within an inch of its life. It wasn't about cleanliness it was about nuking bacteria. Most parents weren't going home to disinfect their child's beaker before they gave them a drink.

!
It WOULD have been down for years!