UK lost measles free status

[Stressedout10]

So due to all the anti Vaxers the WHO have stripped us of our measles free status.
What next ?

Still playing "Devil's advocate" with the lives of immunocompromised people, I see.

no one is telling you you have to put chemicals in your child's body, they are saying if you don't - and bear in mind these are lifesaving "chemicals" (and FYI immunizations aren't chemicals but small doses of virus) - you cannot risk other children's health.

People are definitely talking about what I have to do. They are talking about making vaccinations mandatory, or - those who want to make some token concession to bodily autonomy but not actually respect it - making them optional but with financial or educational penalties. These people are talking about taking away free choice in matters of healthcare. That is unacceptable to me.

Still playing "Devil's advocate" with the lives of immunocompromised people, I see.

No. I am arguing against my child being forced to accept substances into her body against the choice of her parent.

My mum didn’t take me to the second lot of MMR jabs. Ive since had the rubella jab after my first son was born. I had mumps when I was 18 and it really was a miserable time. It took a lot longer to recover than I thought it would and nearly jeopardised my A levels. I will never understand people that are anti vaccinations. Why would you risk it? Baffles me.

We need more media coverage of stories like the one on BBC at 6 yesterday - the toddler who was so seriously ill with measles that her mum thought she wouldn’t make it at one point. Not an antivaxxer, she was too young to have her vaccinations. Let people see the reality of this. If the statistics seem swayed towards vaccination being more dangerous when they aren’t then we have to swing perceptions back round to a truer representation of what you’re gambling with.
Very few people have the health of others as their first priority so we have to concentrate on the risk to their child.

Andrew Wankfield presented false research, he was struck off and anyone with at least two brain cells should be able to see that they were bamboozled

There was controversy about vaccinations long before Wakefield came along. Not just the MMR but whooping cough in the 1970s.

Don't mean to compare children to animals however if I wanted to put my cat or dog into kennels I'd need to show proof they were up to date with their vaccinations. Should be the same for children joining nurseries and schools and if not then a valid reason for exemption should be given.

@herculepoirot2 will you dictate every substance that enters your child's body in TIL they are 18? Even a Wotsit at a friend's birthday?

@Geschwister4 courts and judges don’t just repeatedly turn down injury claims for no reason. If it has been repeatedly turned down because they couldn’t prove any causal link, then that’s fair enough.

@herculepoirot2 will you dictate every substance that enters your child's body in TIL they are 18? Even a Wotsit at a friend's birthday?

You continue to miss the point quite spectacularly.

Whereas I think that if you don’t understand that my primary responsibility is to my child, you are missing a common sense gene.

At what point does your 'primary responsibility to your child' stop being a justification for your actions, though?

Leaving aside the legal position, do you think it's morally acceptable for you to risk the lives of other children because of your easily disprovable belief that your child will be harmed by vaccines? If you think that's ok, can you try to actually explain why?

(Can you also see why, with posts like these, it's so very difficult to believe you actually have vaccinated your children and aren't just pretending otherwise to make your campaign sound more credible?)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/19/quarter-children-parts-country-have-not-had-measles-jab/

Not sure if there's been a link to this.
I don't know whether the numbers are due more to indigenous antivaxxers, disorganisation or people from abroad, but it looks like the authorities are worried about the start of the autumn term.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of enforced treatment, but there needs to be more of a push to get kids properly protected. Starting in the lowest coverage areas, a catch-up program delivered via schools - similar to how other vaccinations are handled in secondary - might be pragmatic. It would, as with those, require information from the parents on dates of vaccinations their child has already had, and consent to administer any they'd missed.

At what point does your 'primary responsibility to your child' stop being a justification for your actions, though?

At the point where I am causing them actual harm, or placing them at significant risk of meaningful harm. Vaccinations - current and future - come with an attendant risk. I don’t mind the risk attached to the current vaccination schedule. I reserve the right to decline healthcare on behalf of my child.

Leaving aside the legal position, do you think it's morally acceptable for you to risk the lives of other children because of your easily disprovable belief that your child will be harmed by vaccines? If you think that's ok, can you try to actually explain why?

I believe my responsibility is to my child. You can say that X belief is easily disprovable, but I reserve the right to be satisfied of the balance of evidence myself before I consent to medical treatment on behalf of my child. If someone else can’t receive that vaccination because of their own health, it is that reality, not my exercise of my child’s legal and moral rights on their behalf, that puts them at risk.

(Can you also see why, with posts like these, it's so very difficult to believe you actually have vaccinated your children and aren't just pretending otherwise to make your campaign sound more credible?)

I can see why you think ‘accusing’ me of being a secret anti-vaxxer suits your argument. I am not. And I think I have posted here long enough for people to know that I would say so if I was.

Maybe the vaccinations should be aimed at young adults too as they are amongst the first group to miss vaccinations in the late 90sumps is certainly seeing an increase in this age group and measles will not be far behind.
I am if the generation that had it as a child,my mother looked after 3of us who got it at the same time.We were ok but she was aware of lots of other mums who weren't,blindness was the main fear after death.She was very adamant that her grandchildren were vaccinated.

You can say that X belief is easily disprovable, but I reserve the right to be satisfied of the balance of evidence myself before I consent to medical treatment on behalf of my child.

That sounds reasonable - except unfortunately the majority of people are simply not adequately equipped to weigh the evidence for themselves.

That sounds reasonable - except unfortunately the majority of people are simply not adequately equipped to weigh the evidence for themselves.

But they are still entitled to do so.

@herculepoirot2 , I am immunocompromised and rely on herd immunity. I get it a bit more "in real life" than you do with your internet musings.

At the point where I am causing them actual harm, or placing them at significant risk of meaningful harm.

So if the antivax agenda continues to succeed, and vaccination rates drop low enough that epidemics of previously virtually eradicated illnesses become commonplace again, will you change your mind?

Vaccinations - current and future - come with an attendant risk. I don’t mind the risk attached to the current vaccination schedule. I reserve the right to decline healthcare on behalf of my child.

We don't have to see eye to eye on this but as I have said before, I will always support a child's right to not be harmed over a parent's right to harm them.

I believe my responsibility is to my child. You can say that X belief is easily disprovable, but I reserve the right to be satisfied of the balance of evidence myself before I consent to medical treatment on behalf of my child. If someone else can’t receive that vaccination because of their own health, it is that reality, not my exercise of my child’s legal and moral rights on their behalf, that puts them at risk.

I think this is disingenuous in the extreme. You can't pretend that your actions don't put other people at risk simply because that isn't your primary intention.

If a parent satisfied themselves that on the balance of evidence their child would be better off only eating one meal a day, would you support them in that? Do they not have the right to decide what chemicals they put into their child? Why is putting chemicals into their child to prevent starvation something a parent is morally required to do, but putting chemicals into their child to prevent disease something that they can choose not to do? And before you say 'because the child might not get sick', I go back to my earlier point - you don't know which child will and which child won't get sick, so why is it ok for parents to play Russian roulette with their child's life?

I can see why you think ‘accusing’ me of being a secret anti-vaxxer suits your argument. I am not. And I think I have posted here long enough for people to know that I would say so if I was.

It doesn't really suit my argument. It's just that if I really believed you were just playing devil's advocate and this was all just an intellectual exercise to you, I would probably not bother arguing the point, since you wouldn't actually be harming your children. But I don't believe that's true, and so I feel a moral obligation to have the argument in case having the argument persuades you (and, I suppose, other antivaxxers reading the thread) to make better choices.

Maybe the vaccinations should be aimed at young adults too as they are amongst the first group to miss vaccinations in the late 90sumps is certainly seeing an increase in this age group and measles will not be far behind.

There should be at least more of an awareness campaign. Anecdotally, some teens/YA who weren't vacc'd when young are taking responsibility for themselves - I'm not sure, I'd hope that if they haven't had the standard jabs they can get those from their GP.
From what I've read, the efficacy of the mumps component declines more than the measles which hopefully means there won't be the same level of outbreaks - but mumps can be nasty enough, and there's certainly no reason for complacency.

I am immunocompromised and rely on herd immunity. I get it a bit more "in real life" than you do with your internet musings.

And I am very sorry for you. It doesn’t give you the right to override my daughter’s bodily autonomy.

Vasya

I’m out at the moment so I am not ignoring you, but that tome will have to wait.

And it gives anti vaxxers the right to put me and people like me at risk of death?

I was immunosuppressed while undergoing chemo. I didn’t avoid my unvaccinated child any more than my vaccinated one. It was my responsibility to look after my own health and I don’t believe that an unvaccinated child poses any risk. My children have some but not all vaccinations as I don’t believe the risk outweighs the benefits.

I teach my dd about bodily autonomy and have done all her life. I also put her in a car seat when she was a baby even though I never had one as a child. I make her eat healthy food when she wants chocolate instead. Your child does not have absolute bodily autonomy from birth. You make choices for them. Vaccination is a positive action for your child. And for the wider community.

Normal everyday illnesses put people like you at risk though @bellinisurge not anti vaxxers. Like people who are sick then head out the next day or don’t wash their hands after the toilet... there will be far more risk to you from the everyday folk than the odd person who chooses not to vaccinate their child. Fully vaccinated children also carry and transmit the diseases.