To throw away DD'S toys because she acts like a wild animal?

[MrsZlatan]

My DD has just turned four and I am at the end of my tether. She is the youngest of four - the older ones are boys.

Since she was little she has always seemed more intense (if that's the right word) than my sons.

She still sleeps in bed with me at night and in four years has slept in her own bed only once when her brother slept beside her which she is adament she's not doing again. She kicks me, pulls the covers off me and has comprised my relationship with dp - all of which I've put up with and went along with thinking she would soon grow out of sleeping with me.

Recently, she has taken to refusing to do pretty much anything asked - if it involves tidying up her toys (which she throws about with wild abandon) she screams at the top of her voice, scratches me which hurts, hits me and holds her breath and pants with temper and glares at me like she hates me. I don't understand why she is so angry and defiant when she can be so charming funny, smart and engaging.

I'm not a shouty person but twice these holidays I've lost my rag after giving her chance after chance to pick up her toys and her throwing my things around deliberately in temper. I shouted at her that I would throw her toys in the bin if she wouldn't pick them up which made her even worse understandably.

She can tidy up, she understands everything but she just refuses point blank to do it and will resort to violence she is honestly like a wild animal - I don't know what to do or how to put any consequence in place. We tried the thinking/cool down step but she ended up sobbing and screaming she was sorry which upset me.

Do I need to get tough and get rid of her stuff? I think this will make her worse and dig her heels in even more and resent me. Or do I give up and follow her around tidying up for her, getting her shoes on her, taking her dinner plate into the kitchen to avoid the wild animal side?

Sorry it's so long. I wanted to provide an accurate picture of her character and personality.

Don't let her push you into a big gesture punishment you will probably regret (Christmas is cancelled!) its just ramping up the emotions which are already high enough. You are the rational adult here so stick to sensible consequences and consistency.

Can you put the toys “away” for a day or two rather than throwing them out completely?

I found ignoring works pretty well. As if they aren’t even there.
Doing this really annoyed them and they would eventually stop and come to me and either act like nothing happened or apologised.
Your daughter needs to sleep in her own room. She needs really firm boundaries. You can not give an inch. But you have to be consistent. Maybe watch some of those super nanny programs?

Never threaten something you’re not prepared to do.
I’m not trying to be a bitch but it sounds like your dd has you right where she wants you.
You gave up on the naughty step because she cries and screams.
Please don’t give up, it will result in worse behaviour and really you’ll be doing her no favours in the long run.
It’s not easy but you must be consistent. Once you decide on an intervention (naughty step, toy removal etc) you MUST do it.
Good luck

Kids develop at their own pace. I think she will outgrow some of these behaviours in due course.

In the meantime... possibly some ODD strategies might help? For example, instead of asking/telling her to tidy up, could you start tidying and say, "I'd love some help," or offer her a choice such as, "Would you like to tidy up now or after we do [something else]?"

On the face of it, she seems very attached to you but has difficulty managing her emotions. At 4 y/o, she's still very young. x

Maybe have a sort out and put some toys away, and let her have one basketful at a time. When that is tidy (all thrown back in the basket) she can have another one out.
It sounds difficult for you OP. Maybe contact your health visitor about it. My son was very intensely emotional and I really struggled. He's now being assessed for autism. We are learning new techniques to manage his behaviour as none of the usual things work with him.

My heart goes out to you, it sounds like you are going through a really tough time together as a family - remember that's what it is, an experience that involves all of you & one that won't last for ever.

Fully agree with PP that you are the rational adult in this currently tense & difficult relationship & you have to be firm, fair & consistent.

The aim must be to resolve this in as short a timescale as possible & with as little an impact on any of the family relationships as possible. Don't hesitate if you need to ask for professional support with this!

What support do you get from DP both day-to-day & mid-tantrum? They need to back you up 100% of the time; perhaps you could agree a strategy with them?

Presumably she starts school in a couple of weeks; how does she feel about this - could this forthcoming change be a cause of anxiety, manifest as anger to you if she sees you as the one making her go?

How do your DSs feel about the situation at the moment & how old are they? Can they express their views to DD or would that not (yet) be appropriate?

Would it work if you removed some of DDs toys now, explaining that she can "earn" them back with appropriate & gentle behaviour?
My own focus would be on getting her into her own bed, perhaps with motivation of getting favourites back, or becoming a "big girl", or having a treat day out (etc etc) Perhaps you could make the change on a certain date, maybe agreeing to sit in/near her room as she settles if she needs some comfort.

Sorry to throw out so many questions, I really hope you are able to make her feel happier & more secure soon

The star was supposed to be a beautiful bunch of flowers! 💐

I agree that your Health Visitor could be helpful here - even if it's just signposting you to agencies who could support you.

I wouldn't throw out toys. What I would do is what a previous poster suggested - put lots of them away, so she's not overwhelmed with choice. Then I'd circulate them a bit, so put some away for a month, and then swap them with others for a month etc (obviously keep out favourites all the time).

I also sometimes put toys in "time out". If the kids are fighting over a toy, it goes on top of the kitchen cupboards (make sure it's not somewhere that she could try to climb up to and risk falling) for the rest of the day.

The closest I get to getting rid of toys is if they're throwing them and I say "You're not being careful with this toy - do you not like it any more? If you don't, we can give it to a boy or girl who would enjoy playing with it and be careful with it."

I also occasionally threaten that Santa won't bring new toys if they're not careful with the old ones. I'm not convinced this is good parenting, and it has led on the past to me spinning a whole tale about how the elves make the toys and it's wasting their time to make things that get broken, so Santa has the power to step in and say that they won't make big toys for a child any more if the child isn't careful. It's got a bit out of hand, and as I say, it's probably terrible parenting, but it seems to work.

Hi, we had similar with our son. In the end we asked the health visitor to come out (I have several nieces and nephews with autism, so this was my concern)

Honestly, I had to put firmer boundaries in place. And ignore tantrums. They actually stop quicker when ignored.

We also started a reward chart: no physical aggression in a day and he gets a star. 5 stars and he gets a small toy (ie a car).

I also put my phone away when playing with him so that he gets my full attention

Hope you get it sorted soon. It’s bloody brutal

A pp has used the phrase ODD. I’m wondering whether your dd is calling the shots in your family life. You sound like you’re at the end of your tether. Please see your GP.

Don't parent yourself into a corner and end up either having to back down or do something that will hurt you in the long term. Channel calm and consistent, have a rant and drink when she's in bed. My 6 year old has to be sent to his room alone to calm down, my four year old will respond to cuddles. Shouting makes both of them behave like arseholes...

Are you a frustrated novelist by any chance? Jesus, you have a four year old having a tantrum, not Jane Austen having a meltdown.

Your 'wild animal' screaming with 'wild abandon' is a four year old little girl. Say no, your behaviour is inappropriate and confiscate every single thing she throws until her behaviour improves and she earns them back.

My 4 year old can be like this. I learned he just got worse the more I pushed it. Ive started to just change the subject for a few minutes to calm us both down and then ask again it seems to be working. He doesn't respond well to stuff like I'll bin the toys, your being naughty or no treat yada yada. He seems to zone in on the negative part and gets wound up. I dont think he fully understands if you dont do this then it has consequences.

You are the adult. Tell her calmly what will happen if she is naughty , rude, violent etc. Then implement it, really don't budge at all. Let her scream herself sick if she wants to, ignore it. When she calms down get a real apology and have a hug.

I follow the 3 Day Nancy's rule 'any bad habit can be broken in 3 days if you are consistent'. The behaviour, sleeping etc. can be sorted so be positive. Loads of good tips online.

I dont think getting rid of toys as punishment will get your message across. It's about boundaries and instant consequences. Even at 4 it needs to be kept really simple. If she's throwing toys instead of tidying up, naughty step. Getting rid of toys will get all sorts of different emotions stirred up and the message could be lost.

Most importantly, get help from health visitor if you need it. Or get another adult to support you if you are dealing with it on your own. Choose a family member or friend who is supportive of the situation and will be consistent with the plan. Have them around as much as poss while you put boundaries in place. You might just need the moral support that you're doing the right thing or someone who can take over with the consistency if you have a wobble. Sleeping in her own bed might be the tough one but it can be done.

Watch some reruns of supernanny for inspiration

Have you tried reward charts for cleaning her room etc.?

I had/have some similar behaviour with my DD (4.5). A lot of her friends are being challenging too at the moment. We got into a negative cycle where I felt all I was doing was criticising her and she was acting out for attention.
I implemented a reward jar (pom pom jar, see Pinterest) and pinned up a poster of House Rules. During the course of a day we will write a list of things she would like to do. If she causes a delay by not picking up toys she is reminded that this will impact on her doing the things on the list as she will run out of time. This was helped cos we just read a Frog and Toad book where Toad wrote a list. Pom poms are also lost for breaking rules. Tbh I do find it boring playing but I’ve made a point of setting up more craft activities and sometimes doing it with her. What does your DD love? Mine loves sticking and glue and making birds nests stuff like that.
I see your DD has just turned 4-mins has only recently “got it” to a degree in terms of consequences because over the past few months we have had some stiff battles where I’ve had to be extremely firm and not budge. I think you have to have that big show down where you hold firm and let them tantrum and they do learn from it. You probably also need a break! I get shouty when I’m tired and then she just shouts as well

mine not mins

You say 'Comw on, let's pick up your toys' and you start and help her if needed. Strong willed children don't always jump to order and are best won over with cooperation and a bit of creative thinking! Some boundaries around sleeping might just help her, worth doing if it's effecting you. I definitely wouldn't throw out the toys, you need to stay calm when she's challenging.

It sounds like there isn't really a consequence for her bad behaviour so she hasn't really got any boundaries - You tried the naughty step, she didn't like it, so you stopped. So she can do what she wants and nothing really happens.

What did/do you do if her brothers play up?

Can you take away a favourite toy for a day or even ask the ones she leaves out bag up and put away until she does X to earn them back?

What is she like at nursery / school?

I feel sorry for her teachers! If you are allowing her to get away with physical violence as well as ruling the roost I think you have failed as a parent. The nonsense about toys is irrelevant, she needs to sleep in her own bed and stop lashing out when she doesn't get her own way.

I suggest you get some professional help to deal with these two issues.

It doesn't appear that your partner is supporting you with these issues, or you have just left those details out of your OP? You mention this cold has already negatively affected your relationship with your partner, I wouldn't tolerate that, having one child impact so negatively on the family unit.

What started off as a post about something as innocuous as tidying up toys actually shows the much more serious matters you have to address, I don't think you can leave it too much longer, especially if she is going to school in September.

Typo, 'child' not 'cold'!

Dear lord, you give up on discipline because she cries? No wonder she’s a brat!

Harsh - but grow some parenting balls. You are creating a monster. Decide on a plan - you and partner - and stick to it. No exceptions. There is literally nothing worse than a badly behaved spoilt brat who thinks the whole world will dance to their tune like mummy and daddy.