To throw away DD'S toys because she acts like a wild animal?

[MrsZlatan]

My DD has just turned four and I am at the end of my tether. She is the youngest of four - the older ones are boys.

Since she was little she has always seemed more intense (if that's the right word) than my sons.

She still sleeps in bed with me at night and in four years has slept in her own bed only once when her brother slept beside her which she is adament she's not doing again. She kicks me, pulls the covers off me and has comprised my relationship with dp - all of which I've put up with and went along with thinking she would soon grow out of sleeping with me.

Recently, she has taken to refusing to do pretty much anything asked - if it involves tidying up her toys (which she throws about with wild abandon) she screams at the top of her voice, scratches me which hurts, hits me and holds her breath and pants with temper and glares at me like she hates me. I don't understand why she is so angry and defiant when she can be so charming funny, smart and engaging.

I'm not a shouty person but twice these holidays I've lost my rag after giving her chance after chance to pick up her toys and her throwing my things around deliberately in temper. I shouted at her that I would throw her toys in the bin if she wouldn't pick them up which made her even worse understandably.

She can tidy up, she understands everything but she just refuses point blank to do it and will resort to violence she is honestly like a wild animal - I don't know what to do or how to put any consequence in place. We tried the thinking/cool down step but she ended up sobbing and screaming she was sorry which upset me.

Do I need to get tough and get rid of her stuff? I think this will make her worse and dig her heels in even more and resent me. Or do I give up and follow her around tidying up for her, getting her shoes on her, taking her dinner plate into the kitchen to avoid the wild animal side?

Sorry it's so long. I wanted to provide an accurate picture of her character and personality.

Is it too late to have her adopted out?

That would be my first choice!

So you'd prefer to act the crazy lady and bin all her toys rather than have her sit on the 'thinking step' because her crying and apologising upsets you?? Come on OP, no wonder your kid plays up with your confused parenting style. I think some parenting classes might be in order here, and quickly before she starts school and finds herself not very popular with her peers and teachers alike.

We have the calm down step. I think the longest DD was screaming for was 10 minutes. She has to stay on the step until she has calmed down. After which she has to apologise and has a kiss/cuddle. Remove her toy(s) for two days. I have threatened to take DD's toys to the charity shop so that a good girl who is behaving will be able to buy them. She takes this on board as we do take the old stuff to the charity shops. I threatened to cancel Christmas reminded DD that Father Christmas only visits good children.

Stick with the step, no matter how bad it gets. Explain that when she has calmed down (no crying/screaming) that she can come to you to apologise and get a cuddle. Leave, close the doors behind and let her cool down.

When did DP arrive on the scene?

I shouted at her that I would throw her toys in the bin if she wouldn't pick them up which made her even worse understandably.
^

Yeah, I remember threatening DS with this: he chuckled and said, yeah, let's!

We tried the thinking/cool down step but she ended up sobbing and screaming she was sorry which upset me.

^

Er, this cannot upset you. You give the consequence, you see it through. She'll see through you by a mile otherwise. And she'll play on it.

Positive reinforcement - more attention only when she’s behaving nicely. Let some of the bad behaviour go - don’t mention it, and she will calm down and stop throwing stuff. She’s looking for attention, and if you’re shouting that you’re going to throw her toys away, she’s getting your attention.

Don’t fight with a 4 year old. It takes two to have a tantrum.

Clear boundaries, natural consequences (rather than arbitrary punishments), and CONSISTENCY.

I personally detest the thought of a naughty step. But if that’s a method you have chosen, you need to be consistent. It’s not fair for a 4 year old to have to try and work out what your boundaries are. They must be set out clearly, but kindly.

Treating your children with respect is the easiest and most effective way to earn their respect back. Threatening to throw someone’s belongings away is not demonstrating respect.

You are allowing a four year old to rule you.

Threaten to take her toys away and do it. Don’t throw them away, just remove them for a day.

Give her time outs and stick to it.

Ignore her temper tantrums. Mine had them at around 18 months or so. I just watched them. No reaction. When they realized the tantrums didn’t work, they stopped. I did try to determine what set them off, as I believe if a temper tantrum is often the result of not being able to communicate what they want. So you need to understand if the tantrum is frustration or manipulation.

Trying talking to her when she is calm. Tell her you love her but not her behaviour, let her know in a calm setting next time you will not be her friend anymore and will ignore her.
She will know why your ignoring her when she kicks off.
She sounds very difficult OP I hope it gets easier, I know it is often suggested with bad behaviour but she may have something wrong with her, a defiance disorder, speak to your GP too.

Please research PDA.

Some of these posters should be ashamed of themselves.

She sleeps in your bed because you have allowed it to happen; tomorrow it doesn't happen-let her scream it out. Put most of her toys in a big box in the garage and let her have one back every time she behaves. This needs sorting now. She will be starting school in a couple of weeks and could be the youngest in class. Tell her what a big girl she will be joining her brothers and this is how big girls behave. Make sure she can dress herself, use the toilet, use cutlery etc. so she can concentrate on learning and behaving well.

Hello OP,
You sound exhausted.
As pp have said it's time to make consistent boundaries,you don't say how old your other dc are but this can't be fair on them having those ds causing so many problems.
Seek professional help from g.p. Or health visitor then fo!low advice given.
Don't give in to tantrums.ever.
Share your attention between four dc fairly
Involve your dp in all of above and get your relationship back.
Take time out for you too.it's not a whim or selfish,you need time for yourself,even if it's a few hours to go swimming or out to lunch.
You can do this,you must do it for everyone in your families sake.
Good luck

Make tidying up fun, put a song on and race picking everything up (I totally stole this from nursery), but it does work. Shouting tidy up at a 4 year old isn’t going to work, turn it into something fun that you can do together, works a treat I find.

their d's not those ds.

Its NOT a whim!flipping word changer.

@Hawkmoth I was thinking the same, OP has 3 other DC she has experience tantrums, she can see this is not your average tantrum.
Girls with PDA can buy and sell you, but suffer crazy behaviour.
I used defiant disorder in my post, I was afraid of being attacked for internet diagnosing.

No, don't throw them away.
But do put them away in a high cupboard or hot press etc while explaining to her that if she will not look after her toys and keep them tidy then she cannot play with them so you're putting them away for now.
Let her cry about it, but put them away while she is watching.
Remind her of it when you take the toys out again after a day or two. If she won't tidy again then warn her the same is going to happen again

I have a dd with autism. Your description reminds me of her. I'd ask your HV for help.

I see the usual sanctimonious smuggards are out in force on this thread.

How do her brothers play?
How do they all play together?
Do the brothers roughhouse?

Little girls can be tough going from age 4-6, in ways that are different from the ways boys are difficult.

Are there regular quiet times built into each day?
Does she have breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner?
Calcium, protein, and sugars/carbs at every meal? Or is there an imbalance?

A high octane child needs a morning and an afternoon rest/quiet time. She could read/look at books, you could read a few stories to her. Drawing on a chalkboard is another quiet activity. Also plain old colouring on paper.

Quiet sensory activities can be relaxing too - does she have clay to roll/mould? Is there a sand box she could dig in? Some water she could splash in for an hour or so?

Could the two of you bake bread or make pastry together? I suggest bread or pastry because using the hands is better than operating a mixer or watching while you measure and stir.

I recommend a glitter jar/calm down jar preschoolinspirations.com/6-ways-to-make-a-calm-down-jar/

Take a look at Pinterest for ideas for quiet sensory activities that she could do - sorting a big box of buttons, putting assorted lids on the right bottles and jars...

parentingfromtheheartblog.com/calm-your-child/

This is an almost gorgeous thread. A couple of PPs have stopped in [imho] being perfect.

OP... punishments don't work. They just don't They make the 'punishee' feel got at and it sets up a scenario where you just want to rebel.

So take "punishments" and punitive behaviour away.

And like PPs have said

Don't threaten anything you aren't prepared to follow through.

If you DO do something, then see it out.

Like other posters, I'm reading your OP and wondering if your child has something diagnosable. But it's irrelevant if she has not, because what's important is being CLEAR to children. So as PPs have said: state what needs to happen and give a CHOICE about how it happens.

If you can, make it fun. Loads of suggestions upthread about how to do that.

"Punishments" are crap. But "consequences" are a good learning experience. So DON'T threaten to bin her toys because that's mean. But DO point out that if they're left lying around they'll get lost or broken and therefore unusable.

My DS was the same, OP

We were taught some strategies.

Try this: totally, totally ignore tantrums. Get down on the floor with one toy or game that needs building or putting together (jigsaw or lego, etc)
Pretend you don't know how to do it and say to yourself (not to dd) "I'm so silly, I don't know where this piece goes. Erm..is it here? -no? Here? no?"

Look as though you're concentrating hard. Eventually, hopefully, she will come over and "show" you how to do it.

This worked with my lad. You need to get other dc out of the room for a bit whilst you do this. (maybe upstairs)

This is the first part and may take a while. Then gradually build from that. ie: Talking to her face to face about the puzzle or game, then bringing in the other dc one day at a time.
It's difficult and you need a lot of patience. Does DP support and help you?

When you've reached the stage where she's playing nicely and normally for a bit, then you can tackle the sleeping issue. Think you may need help from HV with that.
Good Luck, let us know how things are going.

Look in to 'natural consequences' and 'discipline instead of punishment'. These things have made life so much easier in our house.

Yelling doesn't work and in fact makes things work. Boundaries need to be explained clearly, consequences need to be concrete. If she doesn't know for sure where the line is that she can't cross then she will of course keep pushing it.

Most importantly, you are not a bad mother, you are a good mother who has a child who needs to be parented differently to your other children and you are struggling with how. Reach out to people who can help you, don't be embarrassed to do that, the sooner you do it the quicker you can get some support and ideas. Parent help lines are a great start point as well as parenting classes and your child health nurse.

Is dp her father?

How is she at school or nursery? It might be worth talking to them/your GP about a referral for checking for Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Pathological Demand Avoidance. Whether those are relevant or not, strategies to lead her to believe that she has chosen to, say, tidy up are likely to be helpful.

You might also find the book The Explosive Child helpful.