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Original poster

Elizabeth I??

190 replies

malibuloving · 18/08/2019 21:00

I’m trying to broaden my historical knowledge and I’m reading a bit about the Tudors and I was wondering if people thing that Elizabeth I thought her mum, Anne Boleyn was innocent of the trumped up charges her father Henry VIII accused her off to execute her as she had a locket with her and her mother’s portrait in which she wore until her death but she didn’t go back and change the law saying her parents marriage was legitimate like her elder sister Mary did when she was on the throne to her parents marriage.

So I’m asking do you think she thought her mother was innocent? Thanks all Smile

OP posts:
diddlesticks · 18/08/2019 22:26

@Branster Yes that's like me! I find an area of interest and spend the next 6 months researching and finding out as much as I can about it!

IcedPurple · 18/08/2019 22:26

she had a locket with her and her mother’s portrait in which she wore until her death

Is there any actual evidence of this?

GotToGoMyOwnWay · 18/08/2019 22:26

I seem to remember that they were descended from George Duke of Clarence? Executed Brother of Edward IV IIRC.

herculepoirot2 · 18/08/2019 22:27

Edward of Warwick founds familiar, was he siblings with Margaret Pole?

Yes.

Sobeyondthehills · 18/08/2019 22:28

tv programme 6 wives with Lucy Worsley.

I really enjoyed it and it was quite light

SirJamesTalbot · 18/08/2019 22:29

She was a kid with no choice as to who she married or whether she became Queen.

She was but she was also a Tudor descendant and had spent protracted periods of time in Royal circles. She would have had a very good idea what being made Queen could entail (if she could hold back her husband from becoming the de facto ruler).

PookieDo · 18/08/2019 22:29

I absolutely love the Tudor’s (not just the TV show) and how they changed history/religion in the UK

Hampton Court is the most amazing place and I actually felt strange standing in the chapel... also the portraits in the national gallery are amazing

I feel sorry for AB. I think she was a pawn in her fathers plan from very young and tried to assert herself when she had some power, sadly this backfired on her. I think she was probably a clever and amazing woman but she probably had not had the best start in life what with her parents virtually pimping her and her sister out, a lot of the rumours about her stemmed from her time in France where I think she was very young and trying to make her father happy.

ElBandito · 18/08/2019 22:30

Antonia Fraser wrote about the wives of Henry VIII
Alison Weir wrote an Elizabeth I biography
But there are many, many more books available including one by the ‘delightful’ David Starkey.

Original poster
malibuloving · 18/08/2019 22:30

Apparently the locket ring is held at Chequers? Also I read that the ring had the Seymour family symbol on the back, does anyone know why that might be considering they didn’t like Anne Boleyn and tried to put Jane Seymour in her place?

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Supersimpkin · 18/08/2019 22:30

What really did for Anne Boleyn was, ironically given how much she'd hoped for it, Katharine of Aragon dying.

Henry couldn't get shot of two living wives, but the minute K of A was dead Anne as sole wife was vulnerable. Their marriage was already rocky after Elizabeth the princess (not the prince) was born, and two miscarriages did for her.

Elizabeth was only queen thanks to Henry's Succession Acts (various of them) that named her as a future monarch, so she wouldn't have been likely to start overturning the other decrees her father made.

Elizabeth famously never spoke about her mother, but she was very good to her maternal family, indeed rather keen on making sure they behaved themselves as the top nobility she ensured they were.

Original poster
malibuloving · 18/08/2019 22:32

@Supersimpkin That’s very interesting, what did she do for her mother’s family in regards to treating them well?

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herculepoirot2 · 18/08/2019 22:33

She was but she was also a Tudor descendant and had spent protracted periods of time in Royal circles. She would have had a very good idea what being made Queen could entail (if she could hold back her husband from becoming the de facto ruler).

She had no choice. It doesn’t matter whether she knew what the court was like. She literally could not have said no to Dudley, because she would have been thrown into a convent or married off to some senile old fool, or murdered.

BMW6 · 18/08/2019 22:33

Perkin Warbeck. Claimed to be Richard (son of Edward IV) who was supposed to have disappeared in the Tower with his brother Edward (who was heir apparent).

Henry VII had him executed at the behest of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain before they would permit their daughter Katerine to come to England and marry Arthur.

SarahAndQuack · 18/08/2019 22:33

She would have had a very good idea what being made Queen could entail (if she could hold back her husband from becoming the de facto ruler).

How could she have had a good idea? She'd have had no precedent for it, would she? The last woman who attempted to rule England in her own right was Matilda (and that didn't go too well).

Rachelover40 · 18/08/2019 22:34

Yes I'm sure she thought her mother was innocent of what she was accused of - and she was. Also she was a very young woman, manipulated by her father and uncle who were power hungry. I have great sympathy for her (& the dirty old man's other wives).

IcedPurple · 18/08/2019 22:34

What really did for Anne Boleyn was, ironically given how much she'd hoped for it, Katharine of Aragon dying.

Yup.

And if only Ann had had a healthy son, everything would have been different. Sure, Henry would have shagged around, but so long as her son lived, Ann's position would have been secure and she'd have gone on to be queen mother. It was not to be.

PookieDo · 18/08/2019 22:34

I am fascinated by Henry also. He was never meant to be king and he was basically a fuck boy when he was young and dashing, 😂 easily angered and manipulated by all the powerful men around him, he was so greedy and extravagant.

herculepoirot2 · 18/08/2019 22:35

Henry VII had him executed at the behest of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain before they would permit their daughter Katerine to come to England and marry Arthur.

Actually I don’t think that’s right. He was executed at the same time, but the stipulation was that Edward of Warwick be executed, as the surviving heir of Edward III.

Original poster
malibuloving · 18/08/2019 22:36

Is there any chance that Perkin Warbeck was Richard? It hints at that in the White Queen apparently but doesn’t Gregory say that it was just her imagination?

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 18/08/2019 22:36

I've never thought Henry had a terribly high sex drive. I know he had an illegitimate son, but compared with some kings he didn't really shag around that much. I reckon he liked the romance but the actual sex, not so much.

(I have no real evidence here, just a hunch.)

Original poster
malibuloving · 18/08/2019 22:37

Yes didn’t he wait years for Anne to finally have sex with him?

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SirJamesTalbot · 18/08/2019 22:37

I don't see there being any particular moral justice to a 16 year old girl being put to death

I wasn't referring to Jane's death. I was referring to Mary claiming the throne. Mary was after all, the heir to Edward. The Protestant faction actually triggered Jane's death whose death sentence had been suspended when Sir Thomas Wyatt decided to rise against Mary, promoting Elizabeth's cause. With "friends" like that...

BMW6 · 18/08/2019 22:38

Sorry, I got myself muddled up there - of course Edward of Warwick was the victim for Katherine's marriage

Supersimpkin · 18/08/2019 22:38

@malibuloving - E arranged all the marriages (nb for both sexes, an arranged marriage is arranged for men too, at the risk of stating the obvious) & dished out posh £££ jobs at court. She could have left them to stew in the country. She also hit the roof every now and then if one of them misbehaved.

herculepoirot2 · 18/08/2019 22:39

Is there any chance that Perkin Warbeck was Richard? It hints at that in the White Queen apparently but doesn’t Gregory say that it was just her imagination?

It seems unlikely. The idea that a ‘fake’ prince went to the Tower in place of Richard of Shrewsbury doesn’t seem convincing.

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