DP’s DD is a bully

[IfYouWannaComeBack]

I’ve thought long and hard about posting on here for advice, I’m genuinely at a loss what to do and this is breaking all of our hearts.

She is not a bad kid, she can be really lovely, funny and charming but at other times she takes pleasure in making other people upset and bullies them, especially other children. I’d say currently her behaviour is a 50/50 split, it’s like she’s two different people.

I’ve been with DP for 4 years and her behaviour has been like this the whole time I’ve known him so it’s not a sudden recent change, and from what I’ve gathered she was like this since very young.

As far as I’m aware she’s had no trauma in her life, her parents split when she was a young baby so she doesn’t know any different so I don’t think it stems from that. But obviously there is something going on for her to behave this way.

There’s no rhyme or reason as to who she decides to pick on either. Children at school, strangers, members of her own family, her “friends” even.

Her behaviour is so mean and unpleasant sometimes that it’s resulted in my own DD not wanting to spend time with her on her own and some of our friends have stopped seeing us with their children because they don’t want to be around her.

She’s a very dominant, strong willed person but I think if it was channeled correctly they wouldn’t necessarily be bad personality traits. But she’s using manipulation, cruel remarks and insults to “dominate” her peers.

My DP pulls her up when she’s being unkind or unpleasant but if I’m honest I do think she’s over indulged by both of her parents who tend to brush it off as “she’s only little”. She’s not little, she’s nearly 11 and very aware of how she’s making other people feel because I’ve seen her many times laughing and smirking when she’s got the reaction she wants.

She’s been picking on her cousins (DP’s nieces - from two different sisters) and both of my SIL’s have contacted us separately this week to say she’s upset her cousins or has done something horrible to them.

Yesterday we were at a family gathering and she had my cousins eldest daughter in tears because of her behaviour. This child is several years older, physically bigger and extremely intelligent but SD managed to reduce her to a puddle of tears. It was awful and we ended up having to remove her from the party.

I’m not sure really what to do about this. DP has tried talking to her about her feelings, appealing to her empathy, even punishments as consequences such as no tv.

Nothing seems to be working. Her mum is quite hostile whenever DP tries to talk to her about it and she pretends it doesn’t happen when she’s with her so it must be something to do with DP. This is not the case at all, it happens at school and DP’s eldest daughter (15) said she is like this all the time and her mum’s friends are also now trying to avoid play dates or social events with her.

My concern is that she must be deeply troubled. I don’t think happy children behave like this. I’ve suggested DP take her for some counselling to see if they’re able to get her to open up about what’s going on but her mum is completely against this and accused us of creating a problem that isn’t there. She’s burying her head in the sand about it.

She goes to secondary school next year and I want her to be happy and enjoy her time there. I’m worried she’ll be labelled a bully and end up lonely as no one will want to socialise with her.

My other concern is the affect this is having on my own DD who won’t be in a room alone with her anymore. I obviously don’t make her and it’s making me reconsider the relationship because I don’t want my own children distressed by her behaviour.

What do you suggest? Has anyone else experienced this with their children or stepchildren? How did you help them?

I agree with weezol I would tell DP you aren't willing to expose yourself or DD to his DD as it is upsetting to witness or be the target of her malicious behaviour.

You have to put your DD first here. DSD sounds like my mother - who has NPD. She revels in causing pain to others, it's all she thinks about. The "nice side" is just so that she can keep people close enough to her to be able to hurt them when she chooses.

If you dont live together, the I think I would be calling time on this relationship TBH. If in the future you were to move in with him ,what would she be like then?!. Also as she gets older she will be bigger and more violent!.I think she needs serious help TBH. Your DP should contact his GP and explain the situation .GP might be able to do a referral ,whether his Ex is happy or not .May happen anyway as in Secondary School will probably not be tolerated .FFS pushing another child down stairs?!.They could have been killed or seriously injured!.This needs nipping in the bud right now ,what if she is cruel to her own children when she has some!

Junior school is very closeted, kids have to get along as they are in the same class for years.

In high school they get split into different groups and lessons.

They no longer have to put up with this crap and they vote with their feet. It is a natural consequence to her behavior.

You need to deal with your DDs interests at heart. You answer the FaceTime calls.

State ‘Sorry we aren’t visiting as you were mean yesterday’

Show your DD how to react and deal with it.

For the Palydoh the consequence should have been for her to clear it all away in her own. DD should’ve what up and walked away.

Bloody hell! 'Snail soup'? At that age?

The rest of it is very concerning, but that last bit really tips it. Someone needs to get her to a specialist.

None of us have any pets so I hadn’t considered this. She seems to be nice to our friend’s dogs though.

Has she ever been alone with the dog? How does dog/other animals react to her?

For the Palydoh the consequence should have been for her to clear it all away in her own. DD should’ve what up and walked away
This is exactly what happened. DP made her sit down and separate all the colours again. The whole time she crying and saying it wasn’t fair but she wasn’t crying because she realised she’d behaved badly, she was crying because she felt she was being unfairly punished.
Her whole attitude to being punished is that the adult imposing it is mean, horrible, she hates them.
It’s really really draining.

If DP tries to talk to her mum about it she shouts and shuts the conversation down, or she’ll deflect and say “Well DD said it happened this way” even when she’s told DP witnessed it.

Well there's your answer right there.

I also think bullies are creating a downward spiral

She’s mean, kids avoid her, mum sees this exclusion as bullying, mum complains, teacher force kids to play, she’s mean again. Won’t play her game etc but fear her mum will complain or teachers tell them off. She’s not learning consequences.

From that link and other stuff I've read, it seems like punishment won't work long term but praise for appropriate behaviour might - if she can play nicely for half an hour, then let them play for that long, tell your DSD how she has done well, no mean talk, good sharing or turn taking or whatever (she's on a toddler level seemingly), then stop so she can't escalate, DP takes her out or she gets some screen time as a reward.

You cannot control her or her dad or mum's reaction to her.

You can remove your dd so she is not exposed to bullying, and either see your partner separately or not at all.

Protect your own dd, why is she playing playdoh with a child who is mean, nasty, aggressive- this is not her choice, it is not her friend and it's a waste of your time and energy trying to sort it out. Not leaving them alone isn't enough- just remove her from your dd's life.

This little girl is very very troubled and this is not easily fixed, it's not in your power to fix either so all you can do is protect you and your family.

But also if your DD doesn't want to spend time with her - she shouldn't have to.

Why on earth are you letting this child spend ANY time with your DD.

This volatile and unstable behaviour must be very confusing for her.

Frankly, this child wouldn't get within a square mile of mine, and I would be looking very carefully at a future with your DP.

Psychopathy has a higher genetic component than other anti social personality disorders so to just blame the parenting is pretty short sighted.

Spot on.

Sociopaths are made and psychopaths are born. However personality disorders are not widely understood, yet we know they exist. I suspect they are not as rare as people assume as not all psychopaths result in murder but just very high levels of unpleasantness/bullying/manipulation, as in this case.

They are often very charming (the nice side) and until you know what you are dealing with you assume "normal" reasons for the bad behaviour, such as tiredness, feeling left out etc. It is why their behaviour goes on for so long as all the empathic reasons are usually considered.

Op, I feel for you. My ex partners daughter was very similar and now as an adult she is the same. I hung on, helping, arranging counselling but nothing worked. She doesn't have empathy for others and lacks insight so harms people constantly. She is more covert as not a extrovert but her behaviour became apparent during Uni as living with others who didn't know her (so didn't make allowances) really showed up her behaviour. She has a boyfriend, he is lovely but has low self esteem and she is awful to him in public. She is very bright so will succeed in a career and it's thought that a high percentage of CEOs are physcopaths. Agreeableness in people tend to hold back their careers as they are consensual and considerate of others. Personality disorders are often not a problem for the sufferer but those around them.

It is assumed the cause is hardwired so very unlikely to change. Triggers for her will be perceived or actual slights to her ego, feeling envious or not being in control. Your daughter was "forcing" her to tidy up so I can see that is a trigger. If you look back over incidents with this mindset the triggers become clearer. The bullying is a way to get others to bend to her will or establish her dominance. Ex step daughter once said "it's control someone or be controlled". Her siblings were not the same as her and the difference was noticeable from a very young age.

Victim mentality is extremely common as she has no insight or empathy so everything will feel unfair. The anger you see on her face is rage and again very common. It was actually terrifying to see this in a young ish person, but gets worse as they age.

I doubt you would ever get you dp to relate to this and PDs are not diagnosed until over 18 so you have a long road ahead. Initially we all assumed ASD as the lack of empathy was so obvious but ASD does not make someone manipulative or heartless to others.

Oh forgot! Lying.. she is able to lie so well, by ommission or directly. There is never a sign, which you usually know about in small children. The other obvious sign, in reflection, was lack of kindness and complete indifference, to small children or pets. She lacked the usual reaction that children have when they see a cute puppy or baby.

The other obvious sign, in reflection, was lack of kindness and complete indifference, to small children or pets. She lacked the usual reaction that children have when they see a cute puppy or baby
She gets excited by cute dogs and babies so I don’t think she completely lacks empathy.
And she’s not horrible all the time, like I said in my first post she can be lovely at times but it’s around 50% of the time.
You never know which way she’s going to go

She sounds a little like my eldest sister (with whom I am now NC)very cruel and manipulative, a bully - mainly verbal but also physical and would do things like push me downstairs, beat me with sticks etc.
I was absolutely terrified of her.
It continued into adulthood and she has been diagnosed with a personality disorder.
Like your SDD my sister could be utterly charming, funny, was popular attractive - but left in her wake a trail of damaged people.
She lacks any kind of true empathy, but can simulate it quite well.

I don't know what you do - my middle sister and I are now in our sixties and still damaged from our childhood.
I would make my priority protecting the children with whom she comes into contact. Your DD, the cousins and friends. Don't let her harm them. I made damn sure my sister never got anywhere near my children.
The fact is if your DSD is pushing other children dowstairs - we are into serious territory, someone could be very seriously hurt or God forbid worse. It seems you can't stop her bullying whatever you do, so I would make her weekends with you her father takes her out somewhere and you continue on with your weekend with the other children, You can't risk other children's safety and wellbeing.

It will be difficult and inconvenient but if your DH's ex complains then you should upfront say you cannot have this behaviour. Your DH must have some say in therapy or counselling for this child - he is a parent too - surely he would have a say if she had a physical illness and her mother was refusing treatment?

I don't know what treatment is available - possibly none, but your DH have to try for the sake of your DSD and hope that things will get better in the future. Maybe secondary school will lead to her getting the support and help she needs, once she starts on her bullying tactics there.

Awful problem for you - I'm sorry

I think it's a mistake to assume that people only become bullies because they've experienced some kind of trauma or are troubled in some way. Some people become bullies because they have never experienced any consistent enforcement of rues and boundaries, and so they learn that they can act how they please with no consequences.

This ten times over. My birth sister wasn't abused. She was simply unpleasant. My mother defended her behaviour to everyone, and she never had consequences. She grew up to be a highly manipulative woman with no boundaries and no friends.

I knew a girl like this growing up. She had no ostensible traumas although her parents were a bit shit (didn’t spend much time with her, hit her as a form of punishment). There was nothing to really explain her behaviour. She didn’t grow out of it.

Her parents were very strict as well so not that.

She sounds exactly like the girl that bully's my dd, including a mother that thinks she's the victim. She has lots of children around her as they don't want to be the next victim. Confident, manipulative, older than her years & charming when she wants to be!

Having her write letters of apology may help in having it sink in that it's her behaviour not other people's when she's been mean. Get her dad to help her and make sure they are decent quality not just sorry, won't do it again.

Her mum & dad should go to the school together for a meeting, the mother needs to understand what her child is becoming & dad needs make sure she gets it! Things will never improve if they are not on the same page.

Might be nice if a lot of posters could differentiate between the child / person and their behaviour before using comments like 'awful'. This is clearly a troubled kid needing professional help, that doesn't make them an awful person. Kids that feel they have nothing to loose reputationally will act that way....please think posters!

I can't see that there's anything you can do unfortunately, given that the mum doesn't believe anything is wrong and is enabling her DD's behaviour by supporting it and worse - challenging anyone who questions it. If I was in your shoes I think I'd have to end the relationship as what future does it have if you can't ever live in the same house? You could keep seeing him and keep the children apart, but that's arguably not a great future for you as a family.

What I suspect might happen down the line - given that DP's DD has already pushed another child down the stairs - is that there will be some other incident, in front of enough witnesses, so that the mother is forced to take it seriously and then hopefully will pursue some professional help. Either that or it'll be taken out of her hands as someone will be seriously injured. I really sympathise as this is a horrible situation to be in when the will is there on your part to get some help.

everyone on here is asking bout your dp daughter and any past isssues making her into this.but the trouble is your not seeing that your kind dd of your own is the one you should be worrying about right now.becasue the issues you are giving her is what will turn that child sad/bad/issued.she is living with a mum who partners child bullies her to the point she doesnt want to be around her.where she cries or misses out on her family memories.where she must live in dread of when the next meet will be.
the next time mum will force and choose dp and his horrid child.
you will creat a child with issues and bugger me knows which way she will then go.PROTECT YOUR CHILD!

Can you spell it out to her in words of one syllable - even if it means frightening her into thinking about her behaviour? She starts this when she is the youngest at senior school she may well end up on the end of some rough justice. It only takes her to bully a child who has an older sibling to create a real problem and she may well end up finding what it is like to be bullied.

Pushing someone down the stairs gives you a definitive verdict here. It's very likely she's a sociopath, so no amount of reasoning will change that. Taking pleasure in hurting others and lack of remorse are telltale signs. My advice would be to limit exposure to her as much a possible and cut her off completely when she turns 18 (assuming she doesn't end up in prison anyway).