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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DP’s DD is a bully

112 replies

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 09:57

I’ve thought long and hard about posting on here for advice, I’m genuinely at a loss what to do and this is breaking all of our hearts.

She is not a bad kid, she can be really lovely, funny and charming but at other times she takes pleasure in making other people upset and bullies them, especially other children. I’d say currently her behaviour is a 50/50 split, it’s like she’s two different people.

I’ve been with DP for 4 years and her behaviour has been like this the whole time I’ve known him so it’s not a sudden recent change, and from what I’ve gathered she was like this since very young.

As far as I’m aware she’s had no trauma in her life, her parents split when she was a young baby so she doesn’t know any different so I don’t think it stems from that. But obviously there is something going on for her to behave this way.

There’s no rhyme or reason as to who she decides to pick on either. Children at school, strangers, members of her own family, her “friends” even.

Her behaviour is so mean and unpleasant sometimes that it’s resulted in my own DD not wanting to spend time with her on her own and some of our friends have stopped seeing us with their children because they don’t want to be around her.

She’s a very dominant, strong willed person but I think if it was channeled correctly they wouldn’t necessarily be bad personality traits. But she’s using manipulation, cruel remarks and insults to “dominate” her peers.

My DP pulls her up when she’s being unkind or unpleasant but if I’m honest I do think she’s over indulged by both of her parents who tend to brush it off as “she’s only little”. She’s not little, she’s nearly 11 and very aware of how she’s making other people feel because I’ve seen her many times laughing and smirking when she’s got the reaction she wants.

She’s been picking on her cousins (DP’s nieces - from two different sisters) and both of my SIL’s have contacted us separately this week to say she’s upset her cousins or has done something horrible to them.

Yesterday we were at a family gathering and she had my cousins eldest daughter in tears because of her behaviour. This child is several years older, physically bigger and extremely intelligent but SD managed to reduce her to a puddle of tears. It was awful and we ended up having to remove her from the party.

I’m not sure really what to do about this. DP has tried talking to her about her feelings, appealing to her empathy, even punishments as consequences such as no tv.

Nothing seems to be working. Her mum is quite hostile whenever DP tries to talk to her about it and she pretends it doesn’t happen when she’s with her so it must be something to do with DP. This is not the case at all, it happens at school and DP’s eldest daughter (15) said she is like this all the time and her mum’s friends are also now trying to avoid play dates or social events with her.

My concern is that she must be deeply troubled. I don’t think happy children behave like this. I’ve suggested DP take her for some counselling to see if they’re able to get her to open up about what’s going on but her mum is completely against this and accused us of creating a problem that isn’t there. She’s burying her head in the sand about it.

She goes to secondary school next year and I want her to be happy and enjoy her time there. I’m worried she’ll be labelled a bully and end up lonely as no one will want to socialise with her.

My other concern is the affect this is having on my own DD who won’t be in a room alone with her anymore. I obviously don’t make her and it’s making me reconsider the relationship because I don’t want my own children distressed by her behaviour.

What do you suggest? Has anyone else experienced this with their children or stepchildren? How did you help them?

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 18/08/2019 10:50

The problem is that presumably the daughter lives the majority of time with the mother, and as long as the mother is excusing this behaviour there is probably not a lot anyone else can do about it.

SolsticeBabyMaybe · 18/08/2019 10:50

Is her mother like this?

Disfordarkchocolate · 18/08/2019 10:52

It sounds awful. At this rate, she will become very isolated. I think you need to document some clear examples and suggest to his X that you discuss this through mediation. The girl needs help

MolyHolyGuacamole · 18/08/2019 10:56

Sounds like psychopathy. In my career of looking after children, I've come across 2. Present from a very young age and very difficult to work with. www.verywellfamily.com/is-my-child-a-psychopath-4175470

ElsieMc · 18/08/2019 10:56

I know two people who behaved like this in childhood op and I am afraid the end result was not happy in both cases.

My dd2's first live in partner was a troubled teen and child. He was excluded after pushing another pupil down the stairs after years of bullying and fights. He has even posted how his workmates find him weird but would be really scared if they knew what he wanted to do to them.

He started by making accusations against dd, it then turned to destroying her personal possessions, laptop, phone etc. Kicking her car if she wanted to go out. It resulted in friends' intervention when she was attacked on a night out. Eventually he tried to strangle her.

He has another partner now and children are involved. He has even posted comments about bullying, how awful it is and how he supports dv charities. Unbelievable.

I know his parents and they tried everything but he will continue to bully and destroy those around him. He was the subject of a multi-agency meeting with consideration given to warning any future partners. I don't know how this works. The police told my dd to get out before he killed her.

This is probably not helpful to you at all op, but it struck a chord with me. You see the behaviour was as you describe your sd, but his perhaps moved to physical bullying more quickly. Sorry, but some people are just bad, not mad. The tactic of claiming to be the victim not the perpetrator also stood out to me. He now claims it is because of his depression and anxiety as he moves on to his latest "reason".

You sound a good person and understanding. I am glad you are keeping your dd safe. I think you have done your best. Whilst I am sorry for your partner, I think it is time for you to have a long hard think about your future.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 10:57

By a process of elimination, she's either being abused by her mum, or she's a sociopath
Her mum adores her and her older sister would surely notice something was amiss if she was being abused? From what I’m aware of they have a happy home life, both girls talk about their mother fondly and youngest DD is very much the baby and fussed over.

she's getting a lot of attention for her negative behaviour but is she getting lots of attention and praise for any good behaviour? She also gets her father to herself when she is behaving badly because you take your children away

She is praised for good behaviour and when she’s behaved badly DP now sends her to her room to calm down so she’s not really benefiting from it. She has lots and lots of alone time with DP and always has.
I’m very conscious of the fact his girls need one on one time with him and my children also like to have me to themselves.

For example, on DP’s weekends he has the girls from Friday after school. I usually do my own thing with my children all day Saturday and we might tie up on Saturday evening or maybe even Sunday morning for a bit. We don’t force them all the children together and make sure they have time alone with their respective parents.

But like I said before, DP’s DD will ring us constantly asking us to come over, what time are we getting there, what are we up to etc. Then we arrive, she’s nice for an hour or so then it’s like a flip switches and she’ll turn on my DD.

She likes to get her own way with everything also. So they had been playing playdoh yesterday for example, and we asked them to tidy up.
My DD said “How about I put away all of the ones on this side and you do that side so it’ll be tidy quickly”. DP’s DD threw all of them over into DD’s side, smushed the colours together and told her to do it all herself.

It came completely out of nowhere and my DD was upset.

OP posts:
Drum2018 · 18/08/2019 11:04

You must really love your Dp to have put up with this for 4 years. Think hard about whether you want to put in another 4, 10, 20 years watching this persons behaviour become more and more manipulative, while having a negative affect on your relationships with your dd, extended family and friends. Your dd should not be subjected to spending any time whatsoever with this child given her past behaviour towards her, be it at your house or in a restaurant, even via FaceTime. And until such a time that both her parents realise she needs help and they do everything in their power to get that help, you are setting yourself and dd up for more disruption, loss of friends who won't want their kids near the child and overall hassle.

Dh's sister is a sociopath. She was a bully as a child, physically hitting even his friends who were older. She was very manipulative and treated their mother appallingly. We are NC now. Perhaps if she had some form of therapy things might have been different but at the end of the day a sociopath has no empathy towards others so won't give a shit about hurting another person, physically or emotionally.

If it were my friend in this situation where the mother won't agree to help I'd be advising her to seriously rethink the relationship with the dad.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 11:04

What is her mother like? Is she a bully too?
I don’t think so. We have some mutual acquaintances and they think she’s ok, I don’t really know her to be honest. She’s always been polite to me when I’ve seen her.

I know I’m going to get flamed for this but she’s a bit shouty and common (I know that makes me sound a bit Katie Hopkins Blush) She’s not very well educated and she’s very loud and “ain’t it” and “you can’t tell me what to do” in the way she speaks to DP.

But I don’t think she’s a bully, no.

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 18/08/2019 11:05

Is it your DP who wants to get the DC together when his DD asks via FaceTime? It’s just really unfair on your DD so next time she asks and it follows a previous nasty outburst you need to say, or get him to say, “you were mean to [your DD name] last time so we’re not going to get together this weekend”.

Bubbington · 18/08/2019 11:09

Can you trust her with pets, is she cruel to animals also?

ukgift2016 · 18/08/2019 11:11

This is very concerning.

However, the parents are to blame here. She has a mother who instead of punishing her daughter, blames other people for her behaviour. This is setting a terrible example and an toxic environment for the girl to be raised in.

Yes a 'monster' is being created. I feel for the children in secondary school who will have to contend with her.

There are lots of kids who are bullies but I don't think many manipulate and get pleasure out of abusing their own friends and family members.

I also think she should be seeing a counselor to see if this is attention seeking behaviour or a genuine personality disorder.

But that's unlikely to happen with the parents she has.

OP do you really want to stay in this relationship? If nothing is done, then the girl will get older and may display more manipulative behaviour which could really effect you and your daughter life. I would think about ending the relationship.

LagunaBubbles · 18/08/2019 11:12

I think it's a mistake to assume that people only become bullies because they've experienced some kind of trauma or are troubled in some way. Some people become bullies because they have never experienced any consistent enforcement of rues and boundaries, and so they learn that they can act how they please with no consequences

Absolutely agree with this. None of know what is going on in the child's head but some people really struggle not to come up with excuses and reasons for some children's awful behaviour, just because they are children. She won't always be a child, she will be a teenager soon and then an adult. Mum sounds in complete denial and ultimately OP there is zero you can do without her Mum on board. She isn't doing her daughter any favours. I fear for the victims of her bullying, that's where my sympathies lie.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 11:12

Is it your DP who wants to get the DC together when his DD asks via FaceTime?
No it’s definitely her, she calls us even when she’s at her mum’s house.

“you were mean to [your DD name] last time so we’re not going to get together this weekend”
I actually said this earlier. DP and his family are going on a short hike this morning and he’d asked if DD wanted to go. His DD FaceTimed us to see when my DD would be ready to get picked up but my DD doesn’t want to go with her after yesterday.
My DD is very upset because my cousin and his family live abroad and only visit a couple of times a year, DD was so upset that her short time with them was ruined.

OP posts:
Weezol · 18/08/2019 11:13

At thos point I'd cease all contact between your DD and DSD - no phone calls, no facetiming, nothing.

It's harsh, but DSD is currently a bully and you need to stop offering your DD up to her on a plate.

You've done a good stint of being kind and understanding, now it's time to protect your own. This must be so stressful and you and your kids need to take a break from it.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 11:15

Can you trust her with pets, is she cruel to animals also?
None of us have any pets so I hadn’t considered this. She seems to be nice to our friend’s dogs though.

One thing I do recall finding concerning was a few years ago (she’d have been around 6/7 years old) she was in the garden with a bucket and stick making “snail soup”. She was literally mushing up snails for fun.
I remember thinking she was too old to not understand she was killing them.

OP posts:
IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 11:16

Oh fuck. I’ve just read the info on the links PPs posted.
This may be more serious than I initially thought.

OP posts:
Drum2018 · 18/08/2019 11:19

My DD is very upset because my cousin and his family live abroad and only visit a couple of times a year, DD was so upset that her short time with them was ruined

So despite the numerous times your dd has been upset by this girl, you still get the girls together knowing that your dd will end up upset yet again. Do you really think your dd will look back on these years with fondness as she grows up? Like hell she will. She will look back and wonder why on earth her mother didn't put her feelings first and instead put a relationship with a man ahead of her, allowing her partners dd to treat her like shit. I guarantee she won't thank you for that.

middleeasternpromise · 18/08/2019 11:20

I would agree with people saying 'help' isnt going to work if you dont have a buy in from the important adults in her life. As someone else said the attention she gets from pulling everyone's strings might be more attractive to her than the less dramatic fitting in and being liked but not particularly special. I wonder if she has become accustomed to a lot of conflict in her social interactions so needs to see that pattern to feel like its her life.

She is also protected by the often adult managed world of primary school - when she gets into secondary school this is not going to be tolerated and the law of natural adolescents and pre-adolescents will kick in. Adults will not be able to protect her so easily from natural consequences. I wonder what will happen when she isn't holding the upper hand? Daughter had a friend like this and the mother drove herself into illness fighting with everyone and anyone about how how her daughter was the victim, endless school meetings, lots of kids punished (that really didnt help her popularity) police called (by mother) after a while the school started to realise the common denominator was 'one child'. Mother still wont have it, however child has finally started to learn she cant get away with it. She tends to have one friend she dominates but she has reigned in all the bullying behaviour to others.

As she is 11 - is it not time all the other children in the wider family started standing up to her a little bit? And perhaps the adults need to step back from intervening. I sometimes wonder if children were allowed to respond a bit more honestly it might help the kid with the problematic behaviour get the feedback they need that its not on.

Loveislandaddict · 18/08/2019 11:21

What happened when she threw all the Playdoh around and smashed the colours together? Did you or dp reprimand her? Did she face any consequences?

Fleetheart · 18/08/2019 11:22

OP, if this behaviour was simple to fix then the usual punishments would have fixed it. I do think some kind of psychiatric assessment is needed. It could be something like ADHD, or it could be something else, but there is definitely something rather than just usual childhood behaviour.

GreenTulips · 18/08/2019 11:27

She is also protected by the often adult managed world of primary school - when she gets into secondary school this is not going to be tolerated and the law of natural adolescents and pre-adolescents will kick in. Adults will not be able to protect her so easily from natural consequences.

This - very well said

AnneLovesGilbert · 18/08/2019 11:27

Weezol is absolutely on the money. I’d stop all contact between your DDs. You absolutely must protect your child. You wouldn’t tolerate this behaviour from a child in her class at school and it’s much worse to be targeted in her own home.

Your DP won’t like it but he is partly to blame here!

Didiusfalco · 18/08/2019 11:27

Honestly, given that you are not one of the parents and there is a limit to what you can actually do I would entirely cease contact with the dd and only see dp on the weekends she is not there. It’s not fair on your kids to have to regularly be in contact with this girl. I can understand why you are reconsidering the relationship, I think it would be more than reasonable to call it a day.

LagunaBubbles · 18/08/2019 11:28

My DD is very upset because my cousin and his family live abroad and only visit a couple of times a year, DD was so upset that her short time with them was ruined

Why are you still letting your DD be in her company at all?