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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DP’s DD is a bully

112 replies

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 09:57

I’ve thought long and hard about posting on here for advice, I’m genuinely at a loss what to do and this is breaking all of our hearts.

She is not a bad kid, she can be really lovely, funny and charming but at other times she takes pleasure in making other people upset and bullies them, especially other children. I’d say currently her behaviour is a 50/50 split, it’s like she’s two different people.

I’ve been with DP for 4 years and her behaviour has been like this the whole time I’ve known him so it’s not a sudden recent change, and from what I’ve gathered she was like this since very young.

As far as I’m aware she’s had no trauma in her life, her parents split when she was a young baby so she doesn’t know any different so I don’t think it stems from that. But obviously there is something going on for her to behave this way.

There’s no rhyme or reason as to who she decides to pick on either. Children at school, strangers, members of her own family, her “friends” even.

Her behaviour is so mean and unpleasant sometimes that it’s resulted in my own DD not wanting to spend time with her on her own and some of our friends have stopped seeing us with their children because they don’t want to be around her.

She’s a very dominant, strong willed person but I think if it was channeled correctly they wouldn’t necessarily be bad personality traits. But she’s using manipulation, cruel remarks and insults to “dominate” her peers.

My DP pulls her up when she’s being unkind or unpleasant but if I’m honest I do think she’s over indulged by both of her parents who tend to brush it off as “she’s only little”. She’s not little, she’s nearly 11 and very aware of how she’s making other people feel because I’ve seen her many times laughing and smirking when she’s got the reaction she wants.

She’s been picking on her cousins (DP’s nieces - from two different sisters) and both of my SIL’s have contacted us separately this week to say she’s upset her cousins or has done something horrible to them.

Yesterday we were at a family gathering and she had my cousins eldest daughter in tears because of her behaviour. This child is several years older, physically bigger and extremely intelligent but SD managed to reduce her to a puddle of tears. It was awful and we ended up having to remove her from the party.

I’m not sure really what to do about this. DP has tried talking to her about her feelings, appealing to her empathy, even punishments as consequences such as no tv.

Nothing seems to be working. Her mum is quite hostile whenever DP tries to talk to her about it and she pretends it doesn’t happen when she’s with her so it must be something to do with DP. This is not the case at all, it happens at school and DP’s eldest daughter (15) said she is like this all the time and her mum’s friends are also now trying to avoid play dates or social events with her.

My concern is that she must be deeply troubled. I don’t think happy children behave like this. I’ve suggested DP take her for some counselling to see if they’re able to get her to open up about what’s going on but her mum is completely against this and accused us of creating a problem that isn’t there. She’s burying her head in the sand about it.

She goes to secondary school next year and I want her to be happy and enjoy her time there. I’m worried she’ll be labelled a bully and end up lonely as no one will want to socialise with her.

My other concern is the affect this is having on my own DD who won’t be in a room alone with her anymore. I obviously don’t make her and it’s making me reconsider the relationship because I don’t want my own children distressed by her behaviour.

What do you suggest? Has anyone else experienced this with their children or stepchildren? How did you help them?

OP posts:
Mypetsnails · 18/08/2019 10:21

Sorry just saw she's had no traumas.

I'm sure DH could take her to therapy in his own time

I do actually know someone like this, she's an adult now. Lovely family, no issues, parents were tearing their hair out for years. She has, in the last few years, been diagnosed with a personality disorder. Not making an armchair diagnosis of your DSD, but the lying through her teeth and not being able to get through to her re behaviour sounds similar

tenredthings · 18/08/2019 10:22

Are you 100% sure she's not being bullied or abused by another child or adult ?

LillithsFamiliar · 18/08/2019 10:24

Ar you sure she hasn't been bullied? I think I'd explore that a bit further (eg ask her older DSIS). She seems very unhappy. If there is an adult or older relative that she trusts, I'd get them to have a chat with her about how this pattern is playing out and what she wants her life to be like. She must be lonely if she treats everyone so badly.
As for consequences, you're reacting to her behaviour but it seems there's enough of a pattern for you to be proactive rather than reactive. Rather than waiting until she upsets the other DCs, I'd say she can't play/sit/chat with them because of her previous behaviour. It would also give your DP the opportunity to have one-on-one time with her. Come up with certain milestones (eg not getting into trouble at school, etc) that mean she can earn back time with the other children.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 10:26

How old is your DD? Do you all live together? If you want to continue the relationship you can do so and just date so the DC aren’t involved

My DD is a year younger and we don’t live together, and the only reason we don’t live together is because her DP’s DD’s behaviour. I will not subject my children to bullying in their own home.
We keep the children as separate as we can. Whereas previously my DD and his DD would go off and play on their bikes or upstairs, now I go with them or keep DD in the same room as me.

We avoid or make ourselves busy on the weekends DP has his DD. But the strange thing is his DD will call us or FaceTime us constantly asking to see us or wanting us to come over.
She FaceTimes in the week to speak to DD and will be lovely, so we’ll go for dinner with them for example, and within half an hour she turns and starts being unpleasant to my DD.

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 18/08/2019 10:26

Sounds like school could refer her for assessment, takes ages and treatment longer, but could flag up way forward. This denial by mum and parents not working together is v damaging. Children are affected by things that happen as babies, even if they don't remember. Hard to deal with as they were preverbal and it's difficult to express.
Her dad should go into school and ask for a meeting with ed psych. If they agree you can go private if you have means. Might shake mum a bit.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 10:28

@LillithsFamiliar she 100% has not been bullied. Her older sister, the teachers, the lunch time assistants etc all insist she is the perpetrator, not the victim.

She must be lonely if she treats everyone so badly
This isn’t the case though. She always has a big group of children following her around. She’s very powerful in that way.

OP posts:
AllFourOfThem · 18/08/2019 10:28

I think your DP needs to speak to her school and tell them he agrees and believes them when they say she is a bully and her behaviour is unacceptable. He needs to tell them that he approves of them giving appropriate punishments, although if her mother then goes and says the opposite I’m not sure where they stand on that.

Then he needs to arrange counselling and medical advice. Assuming he has parental rights, there is no reason it cannot be done during his time with her. I suspect you might rapidly find that she does not want to spend her allocated time with your partner because she is being pulled up on her behaviour and she won’t like that.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 10:30

Children are affected by things that happen as babies, even if they don't remember. Hard to deal with as they were preverbal and it's difficult to express
I understand what you mean, but she has no recollection of her parents ever being together. She was 9 months old when they split so this has always been the status quo.

My own DS was 8 months old when I split with my Ex and he certainly isn’t damaged or traumatised by it. He doesn’t remember and he isn’t a bully.

OP posts:
tenredthings · 18/08/2019 10:31

Are you sure that all the adults she has access to are not abusing her ? I was abused by a family relative and no one had any idea. I'd say she's definitely acting out from a damaged hurt place. Is she jealous that your DD gets to live with her dad and not her ? Children are not logical in their behaviour and bad behaviour is often a cry for help even though they know it just brings on negative attention.

IfYouWannaComeBack · 18/08/2019 10:37

Are you sure that all the adults she has access to are not abusing her?
The only adults that have regular access to her are DP, her mum, her mum’s DP and her nan. Mum has been with her partner for about 3 years but the behaviour predates him so I can’t imagine he would be abusing her. She has none of the other obvious signs of abuse either and she’s very very vocal about things she feels aren’t right for her so I can’t imagine she’d be the easiest kid to groom if that makes sense.

Is she jealous that your DD gets to live with her dad and not her?
I’ve said several times that we do not live with him. Also her behaviour is directed and anyone and everyone. If it was solely my DD that would almost seem logical and you could put it down to jealousy.

But she was like this before I met him, before she met my children and she is mean to whoever she feels like that day. There’s no sense or pattern to it either, older kids, bigger kids, family members, her “friends”, strangers. They’re all targeted by her.

OP posts:
Fleetheart · 18/08/2019 10:38

Agree she sounds troubled. The school have highlighted it as an issue, so the ex can’t say it’s not a problem. DP needs to speak to the ex, and to find a psychotherapist who is recommended for behavioural issues. If ex won’t agree that makes it very difficult, but suggest maybe a meeting at school where it’s outlined that parents need to be on the same page. Otherwise he will just have to go ahead without her agreement. I feel for you, but agree some kind of intervention is needed. I really don’t think it is about more strict parenting.

SolsticeBabyMaybe · 18/08/2019 10:39

The sometimes no TV etc doesn't seem much of a deterrent. Have you tried insisting she apologises to the people she's upset every time? And no fun stuff until she does?

Fleetheart · 18/08/2019 10:40

Her behaviour sounds quite strange actually, has she been assessed for anything at all? From what you say she has always been difficult to manage.

NotDavidTennant · 18/08/2019 10:41

I think it's a mistake to assume that people only become bullies because they've experienced some kind of trauma or are troubled in some way. Some people become bullies because they have never experienced any consistent enforcement of rues and boundaries, and so they learn that they can act how they please with no consequences.

It sounds like in your DP's DD's case, she is not only getting away with being her bully, but her DM is actually supporting her behaviour. Why would the DD change when the central figure in her life is sending the message that her behaviour is fine and it is everyone that is in the wrong?

alreadytaken · 18/08/2019 10:41

she's getting a lot of attention for her negative behaviour but is she getting lots of attention and praise for any good behaviour? She also gets her father to herself when she is behaving badly because you take your children away.

Clearly what she really dislikes is being ignored so when she behaves badly she is isolated. I wouldnt normally say a child should stop seeing her father but it needs to be made clear to her that she can see her father more often when she can behave around your child.

It does sound like professional help will be needed.

FuriousVexation · 18/08/2019 10:41

By a process of elimination, she's either being abused by her mum, or she's a sociopath.

Children do not start abusing other children on a whim.

mumwon · 18/08/2019 10:42

forget about her being unhappy sadly she may be one of those people who are cleverly manipulative - how well does she get on with her older sister? Does her dm baby her?

YouTheCat · 18/08/2019 10:44

How does her mum behave? I think she's copying what she sees at home.

Supersimpkin · 18/08/2019 10:44

Tackling the bullying behaviour is more important than armchair diagnosing any of its possible causes at this point - DD's 11, she's been at it for years.

Entrenched anti-social behaviour will ruin her life, not to mention hurt everyone else's.

This stuff usually comes down to parenting, so therapy isn't an option unless both parents go too.

In the meantime, other parents and children are complaining, so let them put boundaries in place as much as you can. Ditto the school.

Don't promote her mixing with other DC and do encourage family therapy for all 3 of her family.

Hithere12 · 18/08/2019 10:45

I think it's a mistake to assume that people only become bullies because they've experienced some kind of trauma or are troubled in some way

Exactly!! Psychopaths and sociopaths do exist you know? And it almost always starts at a young age, that’s hugely typical.

Lockshunkugel · 18/08/2019 10:45

What is her mother like? Is she a bully too?

Witchinaditch · 18/08/2019 10:46

Sorry to hear this she sounds like she needs lots of professional help. Maybe say to your partner that your child will be spending no time with her until he seeks professional help for her. He’s doing her no favours by pushing footing around the issue.

supersop60 · 18/08/2019 10:47

My thinking too FuriousVexation
OP - I'd suggest getting some kind of professional help, and it would have to be someone highly trained to see through her lies.
As a side point, my DD was bullied by a girl through most of her early years until they went to different high schools.
This girl has now come out as gay, and is apparently the nicest person now!

Hithere12 · 18/08/2019 10:48

This stuff usually comes down to parenting, so therapy isn't an option unless both parents go too

Psychopathy has a higher genetic component than other anti social personality disorders so to just blame the parenting is pretty short sighted.

NavyBlueHue · 18/08/2019 10:48

Sadly, some people are just natural sociopaths. This may be the case here. Or she’ll eventually be diagnosed with a personality disorder.

Not all mean people come from trauma or abuse. However there may be something nobody is yet aware of.