to keep outings secret from my daughter?

[Wetwashing00]

My DD age 11 sees her dad EOW, during the summer hols we do a week each.
My DS is 5 and lives with me & his dad.
We all do a range of things together as a family. Swimming, parks, day trips, travelling, cinema, holidays, parties.
We also chill at home, go to the library, make up tutorials, pamper nights, movie nights,Lego, bike rides etc..

If the particular activity doesn’t appeal to one child they will get to choose something next time.
Both kids also get to do an activity with me alone.

My daughter seems to think it’s unfair that her brother gets to do things when she’s at her dads. She expects us all not to do anything or go anywhere because she can’t come.
Her dad also does things with her and his family although probably not as much as us.
He is taking her abroad this year so they haven’t had any outings so far this summer holiday. Which sucks a bit I suppose to an 11 year old. But she gets free range on her dads compound, hangs out with her mates all day etc.

I have started keeping some things secret from my daughter so i don’t spark jealousy in her. She could completely kick off at the thought of her brother getting a McDonald’s whilst out shopping.

Some of my friends said that she needs to learn that her time is spent with her dad and it’s unreasonable to expect us to sit at home thumb twiddling. But I can’t deal with the headache of her tantrums.

Should I continue keeping it a secret?

Ok if you're repeating yourself constantly

I'd tell her once what you've done while she was away and then tell her you don't want to hear any more about how 'unfair' she thinks it is.

If she continues, warn her there will be a punishment and then stick to it.

If her tantrums have no consequences, there's no point in her stopping them.

Does she get consequences for her tantrums? If not then that needs to start. Sit her down, have a chat about her behaviour and explain that she hasnt learned her lesson yet so from now on there’s will be consequences if she’s chooses to behave like a toddler and cause upset to the rest of the family. At the same time offer her suitable ways to deal with her upset. (Which to her is genuine) she can speak to you calmly about the fact she is upset and you will talk it through with her, she could write in her diary that she is upset, she could write it on a piece of paper and give it to you or crumple it up and bin it, she could go to a mirror in her room and tell herself she is upset, why she is upset and then tell herself it’s fine to be upset, but not fine to visit it in others so she’s must let it go and move on, she could tell a teddy/doll, she could draw a picture of her feelings or if anything she fancies until she feels better again, she could go outside and kick a ball, skip rope, ride her bike until she feels better again, or just go and watch tv/whatever she watches.

Do you talk to her daily? Does she feel free to come and go as she wants? Is she rooted in to the home?

I know it is hard for you too but I think it is important to recognise that her situation is lonely and unfortuante but can prove to have lots of pro's in the long-term.

In relation to your question, I would be open with her about what goes on in her absence as failure to do so may exacerbate her feelings and create insecurity to your home. Try talking about stuff that upsets her and working out a compromise. At this age, perhaps she is just looking for assurance. If you are always there for her, then that is the main thing.

I think tantrums are a blessing, in a way, as it brings the issue to forefront where it can be worked through and she will be readied for adulthood.

If you are doing everything already then you’re doing ok, just need to keep repeating things until your dd accepts the situation.

I would also try to plan activities for the next weekend she is with you so that she has something to look forward to. I think you could perhaps talk lots about what is going to happen when your dd is around so that she feels involved.

Is she interested in attending a club at the weekend? If so, would your ex take her on his time. Maybe worth considering anchoring her to something so you can say to her you’ll be thinking of her doing x at x time. Idk if it would work but worth a try perhaps.

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart
I like a lot of your advice. But I don’t agree with giving consequences for a child dealing with a difficult situation. It seems to me like double punishment. Firstly for being in the situation in the first place and secondly for not coping with it terribly well.

I much prefer what @AddictedProcrastinatorMan has says and this seems like very sound advice.

For me it sounds like she’s scared she’s not part of your family unit; like you wait for her to go and then do fun stuff because she’s gone. She’s 11, she won’t be super rational at that age.

You need a proper talk.

Have you asked her how it’s fair for her brother to miss out on doing anything when she’s off doing stuff at her dad’s?

But she gets free range on her dads compound, hangs out with her mates all day etc.

What is a compound?

I think the main thing to do is like pp suggest, and stay consistent.

Don't hide anything.
State to her what you've stated here, the things she does at her dad's etc.
Giving your kid MacDonalds, junk food, that's gross.

I'd downplay stuff but not lie eg McDonald's, yeah we popped to the shops and got some food... Tell me all about your day

Don’t keep the activities a secret. And if you normally put pictures online, do it. Hopefully she will mature a bit soon. Maybe she needs some professional help.

I'm feeling sorry for the hormonal dd who has no choice but to split her life in 2. What days out are you doing without her?
I hate being at work and knowing dh and kids are out at the cinema. I'm 35 though and don't kick off. She's 11. There's an underlying issue which you need to bother yourself to find out about.

Punishing a child for having overwhelming feelings is an awful idea, please don't do this.

She can take responsibility for her actions, but it sounds like she is having a great deal of trouble handling her emotions and needs help learning how to navigate them. I agree that it sounds like there is an underlying issue. The key to her resolving it will be getting her to open up and talk about it. This takes a lot of patience and active listening and affirmation (while still respecting boundaries on both sides).

I know this is hard, maybe worth looking into some help with how to approach it.

Puberty is murder! At least, I remember it that way ... wanting to be 'grown up', peers competing to be as grown up as possible, while still secretly wanting to be looked after and loved just the same as when you were little.

Allowing her a safe space to feel and discuss her emotions (including difficult to deal with ones like anger and jealousy, insecurity etc) will allow her into a position where she can handle her emotions as an adult.

Punishing her for her feelings will resolve nothing. It will make her angrier and more resentful, and show her can’t talk to you. Much more likely to be a difficult adult emotionally, if she’s not guided through difficult emotions by you, especially in these pre teen years.

All the people saying they have jealous and unreasonable adult siblings are also the people saying “punish her, she’s a terrible person” - punishment for feeling something just prevents them processing emotions. It doesn’t eradicate the emotion, nor should you want to.

Don't lie to her, but don't offer the information unasked. If she asks then objects, tell her that you're not going to sit twiddling your thumbs, waiting for her return, when she's with her dad.

And the only reasonable consequences for a tantrum are that you will discuss it once she's calm and reasonable, and no sooner. She shouldn't be punished for it.

She's 11 years old and tantrums if her brother gets a McDonald's?
Wow.

Does she honestly think the world revolves around her?

She needs to learn and allowing that behaviour or pandering to it isn't doing her or you any favours.

Thanks for everyone’s replies.

She is obviously still finding it difficult being split between 2 families even though it’s all she’s known.

All tantrums are dealt with, she goes to her room until she has calmed down then we talk about it.

She has now said she agrees that it’s unreasonable of her to expect us to do nothing but she can’t help feeling she’s missing out.
It’s probably amplified because she’s not doing much at her dads right now.

I’ve reminded her that we are not going abroad this year and that her brother would really like to go too.

I hope that as she grows she realises that the world doesn’t revolve around her, I will help her to understand this.
She has a lot of support to help her deal with feeling and emotions, she attends play therapy at school and goes to a youth group in the holidays where she also gets to do exciting activities.
Most of you are right that she has underlying issues and we all try to help her as much as possible.
We don’t talk everyday when she’s with him as I like to give them uinterrupted time together. But she has a phone and we do text.

11 through 14 with our Tween/Teen DD was delightful.

She’s 15 now and like a different person. I think everything felt unfair to her during the early stages of teendom. It’s FOMO, and I don’t think social media has helped. No one posts things on social media about doing the washing or whatever, so everyone looks like they’re having an amazing time all the time.

I wouldn’t hide that you are going out. She needs to understand that she gets opportunities (going abroad this year) that the rest of you don’t. She can’t expect you to not do anything when she’s not there. I might think about tailoring my days out so that the bigger/more exciting stuff is done when she is around.

Is there a difference in her reaction if you’re doing something she wouldn’t be interested in doing (activity for much younger kids), and how she reacts if it’s something she would enjoy?. Is it the activity she wants to do, or the fact that she’s not included (even if she wouldn’t want to do it anyway). That might give you a clue to what the exact issue is, and might help you deal with it?

I always think blended families are tricky. If there are differences in her favour- for example, she receives more birthday/Christmas gifts, then I might point out, that if we equalise in one direction, the equalisation needs to be across the board...... might focus her mind on the things she does have that her brother doesn’t. Ie foreign holiday/ extra gifts. It’s not all a one way street.

I suppose the difference as she see's it is that both her brother's (Your DS amd her Dad's DS) get a day of an outing with parents sole atttention. She always has to share her days out with a sibling and maybe it is that time and attention inequity she is struggling with.
That obviously doesn;t mean you can;t go out with your DS when she is at her Dads(The solution to her feeling left out or hard done by should never be her brother losing out). But is there any way you can get a day when you and her can go out and do something together suitable for her age group - let her choose?

I think you are right to point out that she is also getting a lot extra in terms of actual outings holidays etc from two sets of parents, but I would gues it is the having you all to herself thing she craves.

Bless her. Lots of hugs and reassurance. She will get there. My dd is very reactive atm at 11. She’s had a lot to deal with too because of my health. She doesn’t remember me healthy. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t struggle seeing how I am in relation to other parents. She can sometimes be very cruel. It’s a learning curve.

At 11 or so, I have read children can start to feel that they’re not loved as much as when they were younger. Something to bear in mind.

I also want dd to grow up not thinking the world revolves around her.

She always has to share her days out with a sibling

Some of us suggested you do things just with your dd and not always with her brother. You said upthread you are doing pretty much everything posters have suggested. This comment would suggest otherwise.

Oops sorry that wasn’t your comment.

Shes 11? This is the age where justice and equality are big developmental phases. Dont lie to her, dont hide things from her, explain consistently that different people get different things and that equality is not about everyone having the same. She is essentially trying to control your time as she hurts you could have fun without her. Shes a child, not selfish or a little madam as some have suggested, but you do have a role to play in normalising her and your ds's different life experiences. She is probably a little envious he gets to be with you fill time and you live with his dad. Also dont eat Maccas, its shit and fucks the planet.

So she’s got not problem going abroad on holiday when her brother doesn’t get to go but denies him a Happy Meal...🤦‍♀️ If it were me then I definitely wouldn’t lie and say we did nothing but if she asks directly I would be truthful and say ‘we did XXX’ whilst you were away. I agree with PP who said it’s probably best not to organise big day trips that she’d love whilst she’s at her dad’s but other stuff, just go for it.

I think you need to look at 2 things as both need addressing.

1. The tantrums- they do need addressed as she needs to learn this is not an appropriate way to react to her feeling left out/jealous etc. Regardless of the reason, its not ok that she behaves this way. As PP said, I wouldn't hide things from her or lie if she asked.
2. More importantly, if you want to be able to tackle the tantrums effectively and help your daughter to learn to manage her emotions so she does not tantrum, you need to look at WHY she acts this way. Unlike some PP who simply put it down to being selfish/a brat who should be "used to it all by now", I suspect this is a child who doesn't really know how to manage the feelings she has and this is how it manifests. That doesn't make it right or ok, but if you don't address the why then you are less likely to resolve the problem. Generally speaking, behaviour comes from somewhere. Labelling an 11 year old a selfish, horrible brat given the situation is not helpful nor appropriate in my view. Her behaviour is unacceptable but name calling won't help stop the behaviour and it won't help the OP.

I would guess she is jealous that both brothers have time when they have their parents to themselves. I suspect the activities/treats etc that she is sulking about are just the tangible evidence of that, the activity or whatever in and of itself is secondary. Does she ever have a week with either her mother or her father where she is the only one? I doubt it- and I'm not saying she should- but there is always one family doing something she is not involved in. So she feels left out, jealous, "other"- belonging partially to both but not 100% to either.

The more she finds acting a certain way gets a response she wants, the more she will do it. What that response gets her can be less clear though. Maybe it's attention- negative attention, but attention all the same- or perhaps she gets reassurance she is wanted/part of the family. Or perhaps OP gives in and indulges her. Or a combination of all 3.

Now, the OP can't change the family set up as the situation is what it is, but if her DD can be helped to recognise her feelings for what they are and reassured- the tantrums may well stop in time, if accompanied by firm parenting that this is not acceptable when they do happen. Simply labelling her a brat and punishing her will not help in the long run.