AIBU to think people who say they're 'only' having 2 children for environmental reasons drive me nuts?

[thedaisychain]

Surely, if you were genuinely concerned about the environment, or it was a big factor when considering the size and shape of your family, you'd have no children or possibly just one?!

Saying you're not having more than two children for environmental reasons really grates me. Given the total fertility rate for women in the UK is 1.9, it's not like they're doing anything fucking special! They're just the average!

People who say this, get down from your high horse!

(P.s. Prolific name changer)

There are 7.5 billion people on earth and in real yearns, the earth can support about 4 billion. It's not an exact science but the problems that will affect our natural environment in the next 50 years like wildfires, monsoons, floods, droughts ( with all of the knock on effect that has on farming and agriculture- yes whether you eat meat or are veggie).
Dicking about balancing how many kids you have with not driiving/ reusing bin bags means NOTHING if we don't. stop having children.

I wouldn't wish the future that people are bestowing on their children on anyone. I've got a maximum of 40 or so years on the planet and I'm scared just for me. I can see there being voluntary euthanasia at some point down the line to deal with our ageing population and in all honesty I would welcome that.

*real terms. Sorry!

I think all the catastrophising isn’t really helpful either. People being “terrified” or even wishing they didn’t have children?!?

The human race is, by our very nature, optimistic and resourceful.

The risk of running around saying “it’s too late! We’re all going to die!” Is that people shrug their shoulders and go “well, we can’t do anything about it anyway so fuck it”.

People are making some great strides to improve the environment and in my opinion these need to be celebrating more. We’ll do a lot more by highlighting achievements and inspiring people to set up local versions of good community initiatives; than by this sniping “well YOU’RE clearly a terrible person for using a plastic cup and should be shunned”.

Setting up a community garden and encouraging the next generation to plant their own fruit and veg will have a much more positive impact on society than this ridiculous one-upmanship that goes on here a lot of the time.

The Earth Optimism project is lovely and showcases some great ideas that could be copied locally. It’s not all doom and gloom out there! Let’s turn this planet into something lovely rather than planning to kill ourselves and our children because we’re all fucked

@Dyrne

What happens to us all when we get older and there aren’t enough young people paying taxes to sustain our infrastructure; to become carers for us, to become the future environmental scientists and engineers of the world to develop better sustainable technology?

I knew we'd get one of these posts. I mean, it's utter claptrap, but never mind that.

What you're regurgitating is the argument for a Ponzi scheme. It requires ever more people in order to work. The population is growing year on year and it will continue to do so even at a fertility rate of 2, because longevity increases constantly.

So where do you propose to put the infinite number of people that would eventually result from producing ever more children to pay taxes and care for ever more elderly?

I guess it doesn't matter though because it suits the argument for having as many kids as you like, so people will keep trotting it out.

I think that's nonsense. We all need to be ready to be seriously inconvenienced when they do away with plastic.

SuperSara I was using it as an argument for those that said that as a human race we need to stop “breeding”.

But sure, absolutely, we should continue to berate people for having children and tell them we need to all stop; and that apparently we should all kill ourselves. Let me know how that technique works out for you.

YANBU. I was irrationally annoyed seeing hippy looking family with 5 young kids at the Eden Project this week.

Dicking about balancing how many kids you have with not driiving/ reusing bin bags means NOTHING if we don't. stop having children.

@LadyOfTheCanyon I completely agree.

The problem is, people want to have as many children as they like and rather than saying, "look, I know it's incredibly selfish, but fuck it, it's my 'want' so I'm doing it anyway", they try to find reasons for it being the right thing to do.

That's then picked up by others and off we go again with more unsustainable population growth. It's self-perpetuating and there's no real moderator because of human nature.

It's been proven time and again that creating as extra person is the most harmful thing we can do to the planet. There's no getting away from it.

Ha ha, my DH works in the environmental sector and the reason he won't have more than two children is because it's not 'socially responsible' and due to the increasing population, etc. LOL. I joke about it.

However, I don't think you should be quite so judgmental OP. Instead perhaps appreciate that many factors come into play when people make decisions about how many children they want. It's complex, and you can't make assumptions about peoples life experiences and why people make the decisions they do. I get more annoyed by people who judge others harshly, without knowing the facts.

Arguing about whether we should be having no children, one or two, is not really a big issue. It's the families who have 6 or more kids that perhaps are making more of an environmental impact, surely.

China - made that law about people only having one kid, and now don't have enough young workers paying taxes to support their pensions system. So, not necessarily the answer to take drastic action.

SuperSara but this thread isn’t about that - it’s annoyance at the people who only have 2 children; were always planning on having 2 children; sitting back going “well i’m Clearly an environmental warrior for bravely stopping at 2, so that justifies my holidays/plastic/meat consumption. They then proceed to do absolutely fuck all else about the environment.

Also, to those that are saying the population is increasing year on year - really? Because the Office for National Statistics says something different - for the last 5 years Migration has had a bigger impact on the UK population increase, and in 2017/2018 we actually had more births than deaths.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48769175

But don’t let facts get in the way of a good hysterical rant.

Sigh... obviously I meant more deaths than births

This whole idea of the worst thing you can do for environment is have children is toxic. Humans are part of the environment and ecosystem. We should have offspring as much as any other creature does.

Besides, living past age 40 has more impact than having a kid...so let’s all kill ourselves at euthanasia centres on our 40th birthdays! Don’t need to keep breathing out CO2, shitting be taking up space after breeding anyway. Saying don’t have kids is similarly ridiculous.

Currently there are 7 billion people on the planet. As we disseminate reproductive rights to women, fertility rates drop to replacement levels. Projections are that population will flat line at around 9 billion people. We already produce enough food to feed 10 billion...hunger is due to poor distribution not lack of growing ability. We’ve tackled most waste management issues.,.for example China and no sewage or water treatment plants until the 1980s. We will get a grip on plastic like we did with CFCs when they blew a hole in the ozone (which if it had grown would have exposed life on Earth to solar radiation killing everyone and everything..but we fixed it and it is gone now).

Oh, and these 7 billion people are on 25% of the land mass available (includes all land use- residential, farms, industrial, grazing, commercial)..we can go up to 9 billion and wildlife will still have the majority of the landmass.

If you are genuinely sticking at 2 for the environment then that’s great. I wouldn’t sneer at anyone trying to reduce their environmental impact...but I’m a skeptical cow and think that those that bang on about how they’ve stopped at two for “environmental” reasons mainly stopped for other reasons.

If you were that concerned about the planet you’d only have 1 surely?

No ones concerned about people living longer either 🙄 and quantity of life isn’t the same as quality but no one wants to stop living...

Oh god a woman I know is pregnant with her FOURTH (her partner also has one or two adult children from a previous relationship) and is referring to the baby as ‘another reason so save the planet’

YADBU
I wish people would educate themselves . Having fewer children is the single most effective thing you can do towards climate change . You can eat plants and not drive a car or fly and recycle/!repair all you like. None of that will near having the same effect as having fewer children . Hard as that is to hear, it is pretty much a fact. My friend who has four children admits this because she is realistic. She has no car, that cycle everywhere etc, never fly yet she has contributed to climate change far far justmore than I have with one child, yearly flights to family abroad and a car, though is course I am cutting back on those things anyway as they have an effect as well. Just much less than having a child
And obviously I have contributed much more than someone with no children

Countries that have higher birth rates tend to be the ones that use many fewer resources per child, though that is changing and birth control in those countries is urgently needed as well

Lots of posters on here with biggish families who don’t like the way the conversation on the environment is going, clearly.

Many people do factor environmental impact into how many kids they had. Not just those who stopped at 2, but 1 and 0 also. It’s a responsible move.

I find it much less annoying that couples who arse on about the environment but have 4 kids.

No amount of recycling is going to make that an environmentally responsible choice.

What happens to us all when we get older and there aren’t enough young people paying taxes to sustain our infrastructure; to become carers for us, to become the future environmental scientists and engineers of the world to develop better sustainable technology?

This really is utter nonsense. There is no shortage of people in the world. Even if the whole world went to a one-child policy the decline in population would be slow enough not to cause any sort of shortage or crisis. The worst consequence of this would be not so nice places to live would be abandoned as people move from there to nicer places. Meaning the average person gets to live in a better location, so only a bad thing to the extent people don't like moving for a better life.

@bumblingbovine49 I'm not saying action on climate change doesn't need to step up, it absolutely does. But people with TWO children saying they're not having any more because of the environment is virtue signalling at its highest.

The UK already only has 1.9 children per woman so their arguments are totally invalid because they're not special, they're just normal!!

Totally agree about birth control in countries that have high birth rates! Herein lies our problem. Not the UK with a declining population at 1.9 children (replacement rate being 2.1 I think).

People like virtue signalling "A Facebook friend " of mine posted yesterday that they holidaying on Britain tis year as it's environmentally better for the plan et, they have several overseas holidays a year ,live in a lovely very large house with their two children both drive a 4x4 but hey good for them...

I am not sure why you are so irritated by people making sensible decisions based on the finite resources in the world. Why does one have to engage is absolutism to the point that the decision is taken to have no children? Yes, being vegan and childfree would be better for the environment. Limiting yourself to the average number and having meat free days half the week is surely a balance between living your life and regard for the environment?

I personally consider more than two children to be a selfish choice for many reasons. I have a child of each gender so adding a third would have been a negligible cost and I would have quite liked another child, but I made the decision not to.

I always love how having and acting in accordance with principles is regarded as some sort of virtue signaling on MN.