AIBU to think people who say they're 'only' having 2 children for environmental reasons drive me nuts?

[thedaisychain]

Surely, if you were genuinely concerned about the environment, or it was a big factor when considering the size and shape of your family, you'd have no children or possibly just one?!

Saying you're not having more than two children for environmental reasons really grates me. Given the total fertility rate for women in the UK is 1.9, it's not like they're doing anything fucking special! They're just the average!

People who say this, get down from your high horse!

(P.s. Prolific name changer)

[CocoLoco87]

Ted talk by Wajahat Ali - the case for having kids

[thedancingbear]

I know a lovely ‘hippie’ family with four children. They don’t eat meat, fish or dairy. They also recycle diligently, buy clothes and household goods second-hand, run one car and don’t fly anywhere. They are having a much smaller environmental impact than many couples I know with one child!

No they're not. See infographic above.

[MarthaDunstable]

If someone you’re talking to in the UK genuinely decided not to have a child on environmental grounds then that child would have been living a western lifestyle and there’s a fair chance that they would have had normal western flying/meat-eating habits. Obviously if they’re extremely poor adults then, social mobility being what it is, their child is less likely to rack up the airmiles, and if they’re vegan then their child has a decent chance of sticking with that, but whichever way you cut it, individual people having fewer children is the only way in the long term to ensure the population of the UK doesn’t grow, which the earth really can’t afford.

The problem is that we can’t afford to look solely at the long term: our demographics are showing the effects of previous booms and medical advances, so in the short-medium term if all the women of reproductive age breed at long term replacement rate then the population still grows noticeably.

[allthegins]

Totally agree. If they really cared, they’d have none. It’s hypocrisy. Sick of all the virtue signalling on the environment on here. You can’t have any thread on here without it getting mentioned. Someone put their heating on because they were freezing on another thread and someone cried ‘think of the environment!’

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

I don't think population growth is too much of a problem.
As pp have said, fertility in the UK is already below replacement level and fertility rates are dropping around the world.
Also: population is a bit of a red herring because consumption patterns matter much more.
2 kids is pretty reasonable in environmental terms tbh. A fertility rate of 2 would result in a gentle decline in population over time (as, sadly not all DC live to adulthood).
As PP have said, we're actually under this at 1.9 so Yay us!
I'm gonna go with YABU. I think limiting your family to 2 "for environmental reasons" is a reasonable choice to make and a reasonable thing to comment on.

[thedancingbear]

From a statistical viewpoint, I think 2 kids is fine. As unlimiteddilutingjuice this would lead to gentle population decline over a period of many decades, which would be a good thing.

Clearly, the main problem isn't in the western world, but (however much we like to think otherwise) there is a limit to what we can do on an individual level.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

I'm. Also sick of the virtue signalling allthegins Did you see the "schoolbag" thread?! 15 pages of competitive handwringing about a single purchase. I was reading the worst bits out loud to amuse the office.

[Dyrne]

So, everyone flapping about the environment and how it’s our duty as women to not “breed” (what a lovely way to refer to having your children btw):

What happens to us all when we get older and there aren’t enough young people paying taxes to sustain our infrastructure; to become carers for us, to become the future environmental scientists and engineers of the world to develop better sustainable technology?

“Stop having children!” Is as short sighted as “ALL plastic is bad” and shows that you get all of your information from infographics shared online rather than doing any actual research yourself.

[Dyrne]

thedancingbear Of course the problem lies in the Western world?!?

Unless you think that a woman with 5 children living in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest genuinely has a higher carbon footprint than Susan and her 2 kids from Croydon?

Or are you talking about China? Because their one child policy is obviously a roaring success...

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

Clearly, the main problem isn't in the western world

I recently read a book on population (10 Billion by Danny Dorking) that says that fertility rates are dropping in the developing world as well.

[OwlinaTree]

If we all stop having children who will look after us when we are old? No doctors, nurses, teachers, carers, just loads of old people.

We need young people to balance out the demographic. Saying 'If you really cared you'd have none' is just silly and short sighted.

[nanbread]

My issue is people crowing about how good they are for the environment because they’re doing things they always planned on anyway or that involve a minor change - stopping at 2 children, using reuseable carrier bags etc

Literally never met anyone doing that, tbf.

[pandarific]

Well I don't know what to bloody do. I had my first dc snuffling in my arms and said to dh 'I need seven more of these'. Of course I'm not actually going to have eight children, but I would love three. I really would.
And I could (just) squeeze in having them before my fertility wanes, and I could (just) afford them all in material terms.

But, I am scared about the climate emergency and I don't want to add lots more consumers to the planet, and on the basis of reading about the subject etc I had determined to stop at two, and (as I've always wanted to adopt anyway) probably adopt number three. I've not been 'crowing' about it, but I mentioned it to a friend in a normal conversation. So by your logic I'm a terrible arsehole, but I can't quite work out why..?

[nanbread]

Also, lol to "if you wanted to have six children but you only had two, I suppose that's doing your bit".

No one has said it's "doing your bit". But having only two children instead of six is very much likely to reduce your impact massively.

If I fly longhaul only three times a year, but I'd actually like to fly ten times, is that me doing my bit as well?

Not "doing your bit", literally no one on this thread has said that but you, but is it an improvement? Yes of course it is.

[gingersausage]

@nanbread I don’t think it’s pooh-poohing concern for the environment as such, it’s the bullshit faux-concern. Making out that something you were going to do anyway, you now did for environmental reasons. We had two children because that’s how many we wanted, bugger all to do with the environment. I’m not going to turn round 20 years later and start pretending otherwise and the OP is saying that people who do are irritating.

[TapasForTwo]

Threads like this are so predictable. The virtue signalling you get from larger families who weave their own lentils is just as bad.

For the record, my only child is vegetarian and doesn’t drive.

Do I win?

[pandarific]

What I'm saying is that perhaps people are trying to do the right thing in the face of a complex issue and perhaps you should be a bit clearer in your own mind about what is 'virtue signalling' and what is people trying to act in a responsible fashion.

[Ermmmmidunno]

I only hear this on MN (except obviously from Prince Harry & Meghan Marilee)

Most people I know had two mainly due to cost and convenience.

I bet those saying had two mainly for other reasons and probably aren’t as environmentally conscious as they like to make out on the internet.

[666onmyhead]

I have a friend who'll post about me using a plastic straw on a FB picture and give me a public lecture about it - yet she fly's across Europe and too and from the states at least two fights a month, sometimes more and these are all just because she has friends to see or places to visit . Does my head in !

[nanbread]

@gingersausage fair enough, does this really happen? I've never come across it. Must be very rare.

[Ermmmmidunno]

Wtf phone. Megan MARKLE

[TapasForTwo]

I agree with you Ermmmmidunno

[Skittlenommer]

Totally agree with you OP!

DH had a vasectomy at 25 (we have no children) and environmental reasons were a big contributing factor in the decision making process.

[Conniedescending]

Totally agree - stick with none if that's your genuine view point rather than pontificate about only 2 cos of the environment and then fly by private jet all over the place. Hypocrisy at its finest

[WolfInSlutsClothing]

Conniedescending

How many people do you know that fly around in a private jet? Because I don't know a single one