AIBU to think people who say they're 'only' having 2 children for environmental reasons drive me nuts?

[thedaisychain]

Surely, if you were genuinely concerned about the environment, or it was a big factor when considering the size and shape of your family, you'd have no children or possibly just one?!

Saying you're not having more than two children for environmental reasons really grates me. Given the total fertility rate for women in the UK is 1.9, it's not like they're doing anything fucking special! They're just the average!

People who say this, get down from your high horse!

(P.s. Prolific name changer)

[IfIShouldFallFromGraceWithGod]

Yabu
I would love a big family but think it is very selfish in our overcrowded world

[Goldenbear]

I was recently reading about anti-natalists on the BBC news website and I do think people who hold those beliefs have infiltrated this forum as it's a bold position to take on a website named, 'Mumsnet'!

[Goldenbear]

But despite this these views seem quite prevalent on here.

[OliviaBenson]

This whole idea of the worst thing you can do for environment is have children is toxic. Humans are part of the environment and ecosystem. We should have offspring as much as any other creature does.

Humans are destroying the planet. We are a cancer.

What gets me is that no one thinks about the lives children might have? Lives will have to change due to climate change. But people just crack on regardless. What are all these cute babies going to have to face in the future? It's not going to be pleasant.

I'm childfree by choice for many reasons. But one being I couldn't bare to inflict a likely future of hardship and struggle on them due to some fairly significant environmental shifts that will occur in their lifetime.

[thedaisychain]

@PlatoAteMySnozcumber I am not sure why you are so irritated by people making sensible decisions based on the finite resources in the world. Why does one have to engage is absolutism to the point that the decision is taken to have no children

Ok, so why not stop at 1 child?

[Dyrne]

PettyContractor Great. Check in with China and see how well their one child policy got on. Personally i’m not OK with human rights abuses and forced abortions at 8.5 months in the name of species survival, but horses for courses.

PlatoAteMySnozcumber My whole point isn’t the people that genuinely are making the hard decisions; it’s the annoyance at people who made decisions they would have made anyway and pretending they’re some sort of environmental saviour.

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

A report from the IPCC this month says that " in areas that are being ploughed for farming, soil is being lost more than 100 times faster than it can be replenished and... lost ten to twenty times faster even in fields that are untilled. The consequent food shortages, exacerbated by severe weather... have the potential to create new mass migration flows and geopolitical conflicts."

This is the world that we are creating for our children. We have something like a decade to restrict global warming before global collapse is inevitable. But while deforestation and intensive farming continues apace, pushed by massive industry, this is unlikely to happen.

And it does make us feel helpless. I heard a statistic the other day that said the damage done to the environment from emissions resulting from clothing manufacture is greater than the pollutants from jet fuel. How had I not heard this before?? Like most people I am trying to restrict the amount I consume, the amount I use and the footprint I leave- I don't think I'm a pessimist necessarily, but I do think I'm a realist.

[berlinbabylon]

Totally agree. I was reading an article yesterday that said the birth rate in the whole of Europe is no longer at "replenishment level"

Why is this a bad thing? And please don't say elderly people need care, we;ll have robots for that soon (in fact we already do). Maybe we can stop building lego houses on green field sites if the population starts to reduce.

[Chickenish]

Is it all about your reasoning. I could say I only had one child because I couldn’t have more, or I only had one child so it reduces the likelihood of overpopulation. Both could be true and the reasoning could change according to your audience.

[berlinbabylon]

What gets me is that no one thinks about the lives children might have? Lives will have to change due to climate change. But people just crack on regardless. What are all these cute babies going to have to face in the future? It's not going to be pleasant. I'm childfree by choice for many reasons. But one being I couldn't bare to inflict a likely future of hardship and struggle on them due to some fairly significant environmental shifts that will occur in their lifetime

Agree. Not sure I would have knowingly inflicted Brexit on my son, never mind environmental disaster. If I were 30 now I would be thinking very carefully about having no children at all.

[Ermmmmidunno]

@Dyrne - exactly!

[LaurieMarlow]

and pretending they’re some sort of environmental saviour

I don’t see anyone pretending that.

However it’s not wrong to point out that 2 children is more environmentally responsible than more and less is better again.

And it doesn’t impact the planet what the reasoning was behind the decision. It’s still a better outcome.

[gingersausage]

No @nanbread, I’ve never heard anyone say it in real life either.

[AngelasAshes]

@DtPeabodysLoosePants
Awesome link! I followed it and “despite” having 3 kids, our carbon foot print of 7 tons is less than half U.K. average and only 67% of the U.K. 2020 target. Appears world average is 5 tons...so only slightly above that.

[AngelasAshes]

@OliviaBenson
“What gets me is that no one thinks about the lives children might have? Lives will have to change due to climate change. But people just crack on regardless. What are all these cute babies going to have to face in the future? It's not going to be pleasant. ”

You could be a Neanderthal 30,000 yrs ago bemoaning the end of the Ice Age and catastrophising how will kids live with no woolly mammoths? How can a dog sled work with no snow? Life will be horrible!

Or what about the populations living in the Middle East & Northern Africa 20,000 years ago when it was a lush plain with forests, fields and rivers before the Sahara desert formed? Are you saying they should have just given up and not had kids because oh me, oh my it will be a desert. If we had, the Egyptian and Sumerian civilisations would never have existed.

The planet has been colder and warmer than now and humans have cracked on with decent lives. We acclimatise. We adapt. It’s just plain hubris to think that change = a horrible life not worth living. Besides every generation goes through this. For my parents it was don’t have kids because we will all die in a nuclear war, or radiation sickness or in the nuclear winter afterwards. For their parents it was don’t have kids because they’ll just die in a world war the next time a fascist takes power. For their parents it was don’t have kids because they’ll starve to death in the next depression. On back for-ever.

Humans are not “cancer” we are part of life on Earth.

[Dyrne]

berlinbabylon that’s exactly the sort of attitude that pisses me off. You have your child(ren). You love them and cherish them and want the best for them. You get to spend time with them and cuddle them and try to guide them on the best path.

Don’t pretend that you would happily give all that up for some sort of greater good. If you would, then clearly you were never really bothered about having children in the first place.

I am currently a 30 year old childless woman.

I am damn sure going to have children. Is it amazingly selfish of me? Of course! I’m not denying the environmental impact that children create.

But to expect me to deny my biological urge when you got to fulfil yours? That’s insane. It certainly doesn’t make you better than me.

How old are your children? We’ve known about environmental issues for decades. You made the call to have children despite the drain on resources, don’t look down on women deciding to make the exact same decision you made.

[PlatoAteMySnozcumber]

so why not stop at 1 child?

I wanted my child to have a sibling. I think there is a reason most people have two children and I don’t believe it’s mainly financial.

I am no martyr or eco warrior and I would never preach to anyone, I also have never discussed our decision to have two children IRL beyond saying we are happy with two.

Most things in life are about balance for me rather than extreme principles. I don’t cry every night about the state of the planet but I think we all have a responsibly to make sensible choices within reason. I would cycle rather than drive where possible but if I want to holiday in a far flung destination then I will happily fly there. I am not sacrificing my life at the altar of anything but I am also not going to bury my head in the sand whistling that it isn’t my problem. Our children will inherit the earth, a vague awareness of that is a welcome thing.

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

@AngelasAshes

But we have foresight now, that Neanderthals didn't have. We arguably have no reason to continue destroying the planet at the rate we are.

[LadyCarolinePooterVonThigh]

AngelasAshes an excellent point! We are all here because our ancestors survived awful things. Who knows, the next Spanish Flu could be waiting in the wings ;-(

One thing I hope regarding about our dwindling population is that perhaps children will get a better deal. Yes we will need tax payers etc. At the moment there are untapped abilities in our younger generation. I strongly feel there should be more resources put into children's health and education. If people are having fewer children anyway, let those children have an excellent start in life!

[OliviaBenson]

But we have foresight now, that Neanderthals didn't have. We arguably have no reason to continue destroying the planet at the rate we are.

Agreed.

Also @AngelasAshes those examples were natural phenomenon. Humans are causing what we are experiencing now.

But crack on hey!

[BogglesGoggles]

YANBU. On a fundamental level a lot of those children will be the innovators and leaders. It’s quite possible that some of them will be instrumental to solving the climate change issue. Ultimately raising three children to a high standard is better than only having one child and not bothering to educate them properly.

We only have two children. We haven’t stopped for environmental reasons and I’m not hypocritical or obnoxious enough to pretend that we have.

[LadyCarolinePooterVonThigh]

Regarding not regarding about doh

[BogglesGoggles]

@berlinbabylon really? You actually think your child would be better off not existing than going through something minor like brexit? I could understand not wanting to put your child through something like the bubonic plague or WWII but saying that it’s not worth livingifyoyhave to live through brexit is a whole new level of melodramatic. Maybe we should more of an effort to publicise the likelihood of continued political instabilities in the future to deter the soft from breeding - a form of natural selection if you will.

[IncrediblySadToo]

Humans are causing what we are experiencing now

Wise up. Earth is a planet. It heats, it cools. It’s what it does! Humans ‘might’ be making it heat a little faster than it would naturally, but we are not responsible for it doing so.

This ‘scaremingering’ Isn’t doing anyone any good and berating people who already have children or berating those that haven’t yet when you do, is nasty behaviour!

[Chickenish]

Don’t people just feel happy and warm inside berating others for their choices? Is this not what it is ultimately about?

No matter how many children you have, you are wrong.

The joy of a having a random old man walk up to me in Tescos saying “an only child is a lonely child” and someone else telling me I was cruel denying my husband more children, even though they knew diddly squat about me and my circumstances.