To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

Thanks for raising this OP. I have a DS with dyspraxia and also a very rare genetic condition. He isn't obviously disabled but he's slightly different to other people - if you met him you might not be able to put your finger on why he seems different.

He's very sociable and loves people but completely without guile and artifice and has no concept of something being cool or what's socially acceptable among people of his age group (early teens). Thankfully he went to secondary school with a few kids from primary who have grown up with him and accept him for who he is. I have no idea how he will cope beyond school and worry about his future.

This is a really intresting and heartbreaking thread to read. I have a 2 and half year old girl with autism, currently she gets overwhelmed and cries if a child comes near her. So i do not know what will happen in future. With friendships. But since finding out about her autism it has just gave me eye opening view into the world of SN. I agree with OP , their is a underlying thing of just being polite to children with SN and not going deeper. And i believe it comes from parents. And this whole not forcing friendships because of being uncomfortable is just a cop out in my opinion, shouldnt we as parents be looking deeper into the uncomfortable, why is that? Is it becuase they are different or is it because they actively do something that u dislike?

I personally think some sort of training is nessary for MTAs just as the role of classroom assistant has involved it needs to as well. At dd's school they are very dissmisive. I'm not sure a larger number would nessary be needed but a change in attitude is. At her school it's mainly mum's who want a job that fits in the school day who don't nessarally have the skills to manage the volume of pupils in the play ground.

OP- I hope you aren't too upset by some of the posts on this thread. If it helps, it's made me realise that we live in a bit of a bubble and that I could be doing more to encourage my sons to engage on a deeper level with those they perceive as being different (and me too tbh). I'm guilty of being too reactive, too passive and answering questions as they arise instead of actively encouraging understanding and connections. I can think of a couple of kids who I have realised I never see at parties which had made me realise that my complacency is going to continue to the next generation unless I am a bit more proactive approach my approach. Thank you for this post and for trying- I'm normally a bit cynical about 'raising awareness' but this has been a truly enlightening thread and I am resolved to change my behaviour because of it.

I’m really sorry OP and it must be really hard as a parent to see this but I agree with some previous posters. I will teach my children to be respectful of others and would not exclude any child from parties etc but children like adults form friendships for a variety of reasons and I am not going to force my children to make friends with someone they don’t gel with - that’s goes for children without SEN too. I do understand it’s hard but you can’t force friendships

I was already feeling pretty worried about the future, but this thread has absolutely terrified me. The downright offensive assumptions about neurological disorders (not “mental disability”), the implicit suggestion that it’s understandable to distrust or dislike disabled people... it’s horrifying.

My beautiful boys are never going to have friends. They’d never invade your personal space. Maybe they’ll never realise. Some people here should really try and understand how painful it is for this to be the norm for your child.

It's not easy is it OP. 3 out of my 4 children have SN of some sort. My eldest dd had friends until she was about 9 and then the social and communication differences became more obvious and they slipped away from her. It's only now as an adult, in a long term hospital with patients with similar difficulties has she made real friends. It's not ideal but I'm glad she has that social aspect even in the situation she's in.
My son has one friend only, my friend's son who makes the effort to see him when he can, even though their lives are very different and I really appreciate that.
All we can do is be there for them

I haven't rtft but I agree it's a problem. I can teach my children to be kind to everyone, not exclude people, and be tolerant and accepting of difference and disability. But I can't and wouldn't attempt to force them to be friends with someone they don't enjoy spending time with. Wouldn't pretending to be friends with someone when you don't actually enjoy spending time with them be just as bad as being polite and tolerant but not actively being friends with them?

Why do people keep saying its about forcing ur children to be friends with particular children. That is not the issues, the issue is teaching children to have a openness to interact with children that are seen as different to them.

It’s a lot harder to teach inclusion than politeness, isn’t it? My DS is a bit socially awkward so I’m not sure how successful I’d be at teaching him proper inclusion. It’s not really an issue for him anyway because he has spent most of his life living in a village with a large supported living community where people with learning disabilities are supported to do a lot of the jobs around the village. So he doesn’t really notice people who look different and his social skills are such that he doesn’t notice when kids are different (he was completely surprised when someone at school told him another pupil he was playing with had a disability (she has downs). So by luck he doesn’t exclude kids with SEN, but I’m not sure how successful I’d be at teaching him that. I guess I’ll see when my toddler gets older, how I manage it with her.

Hi op,
I don't have a child with Sen but I work with children who do. It must be so difficult trying to integrate children who are not what society see as 'typical'. Personally I have open convos with my dc all the time about inclusion. My 8 year old has spent a lot of time this academic year being chosen as a 'buddy' ( because the child with Sen chose them as imo they have been taught to be caring, patient, empathic). Not that it matters really but the children are different genders and really not into the same things.

However, we have invited 2 specific children to my dc's birthday parties for two years (my dc wanted them to come and openly included them when writing a 'guest list') and the parents have never responded. My dc has never been invited to theirs. I don't know why this might be? I have tried to be inclusive.

I often deliver training in these areas and love this video. I hope the link works! Brings a tear to my eye every time.

www.respectability.org/2018/12/short-film-about-playground-inclusion-wins-international-acclaim/

You do children a great disservice by assuming they are too young to understand what inclusion looks like.

I think that if children were naturally doing this, the OP wouldn’t be posting.

@SinkGirl I agree it's quite an unnerving thread..i always assume other parents must have empathy and to realise many don't is quite horrible.

its funny isn't it that so much has been made about "personal" space on this thread.
my dd is severely disabled and uses a wheelchair, the "people" who have got in her "space" have always been nt , mainly small children, who will stand in front of her staring. odd that.

op please go on the sn board. find some people from the sn world to talk too. you might even find some MN etters on the sn board local to you (I dId) you will find it really helps to talk and have a laugh with people who get it.

Haha what? Because I said physical & mental disabilities shouldn’t be compared? (They shouldn’t) 😂 get off the internet Is this disability top trumps? Let’s be careful not to go down the “my disability is worse than yours because of x and y” route. The reality is that most people with disabilities will be excluded at some point. In schools, in the workplace, in social settings and the list goes on.

I have a physical disability, and the reality is that people can equally exclude me from social situations on the basis that I e.g. don’t drive, or can’t make eye contact, or because they want to go off doing things I can’t or because they have to take account of the fact I can’t see them etc etc etc.

I agree that’s people’s prerogative, however I do think that sometimes we need to think about why we are excluding people from our friendship groups. After all, its one thing to say that someone makes them uncomfortable because they have a disability, be that because they invade personal space or because they dribble or can’t speak or because they’re in a wheelchair or only have one arm and the list goes on. That isn’t about someone with a disability having to be accountable for their behaviour or appearance, it’s about the non disabled feeling they have a right to exclude those who aren’t the same as they are.

Let’s turn it around. Let’s say that as a non disabled person your child was in a class with only disabled children. And because of that those disabled children all stuck together in a friendship group, thus excluding your child. Would you say that it was perfectly understandable, acceptable even that your child was being excluded? Or, as I suspect, would you say that you understand that your child is being excluded, after all all those other children are different, and he/she isn’t?

I do understand it’s hard but you can’t force friendships

Perhaps not, but we can encourage open-mindedness and giving people a chance. We can also acknowledge that it's possible to have a wide range of friends and acquaintances; they don't all need to be very close friends. To someone who is isolated, for whatever reason, an invitation to join in with a group activity or to go on an outing might be a ray of light. It's something that people who have lots of friends take for granted but social opportunities can be very rare for some people (both children and adults).

Reading this thread makes me so sad. I have a toddler who has Down syndrome, the thought of him going through life just being tolerated breaks my heart.
We need to teach our children to look past differences/disabilities and to take the time to get to know people before deciding we don’t like them or don’t want to be friends with them.
I agree friendships shouldn’t be forced but there’s no harm in educating your children about disabilities and explaining to them that the world is made up of lots of different people, some of which have disabilities/SEN and that those children with additional needs are no different to any other child in that they want to have fun, play and make friends just like everyone else

I completely agree with you, OP.

Myself and husband are both registered blind so know how difficult inclusion can be.

Feeling you're a burden to invite out. Fearing people will be drained having to help you out. But in our circumstances, we are aware of our difficulties.

We are raising out girls (6 and 3) to respect everyone, as long as they are not unkind to them. The boy in DDs class who has learning difficulties is lovely.

I wasn't sure if he was able to do the activity that DD had planned due to his mobility issues so I asked his Mum. He was able to come and enjoyed it. I find if you ask kindly and don't beat around the bush, people will respond in kind.

I hope things improve for your DC. They are still valuable members of society and should be given respect.

Gilbert82 I think that we can do better than that even without having to talk about disability. After all, how many of us have encountered someone who is NT but still has different quirks/behaviours/mannerisms? And yet we consider the world to be a dull place if everyone was the same?

How has it come to the point where people feel that others need to be aware specifically of disability, rather than to not be so insular in terms of the people we accept?

After all, there are people we are friends with who just have different personalities, and equally there are people we don’t get on with. Similarly there are people who have disabilities who might just not be likeable people by virtue of the kinds of people they are rather than the disability they have. But that doesn’t mean that we should exclude others on the basis of the same disability iyswim?

Thank you everyone x so sorry for the folk who are worried and struggling x

@Gilbert82
You are so right! Everyone should be teaching their children about differences- at the end of the day we all are different,some of us just more different than what society 'typically' expects.

I have met so many child with Down's syndrome and the joy they bring me in those couple of hours is immense. Makes me so happy to do the job I do.

Everybody in this world has a role to play- whether it's running companies, spreading joy, curing cancer, making others happy , teaching others to be grateful etc. Nobody is more valuable than the other. I am so privileged I get to meet such individual children and families all the time.

I hear what other people have said about not forcing friendships. I wouldn't either, but I have educated my child that some children find it harder to make friends than others and that it's worth persevering as they might find someone with lots in common with- I certainly experienced this and now have a best friend of 20 years!

I do worry, though, that people will think DD is being non-inclusive and rude. In fact, she has HfA herself, and so very frequently appears standoffish or unfriendly, when in fact she struggles with social interaction. This isn't obvious to other parents at all as she generally masks well in school.

So while I obviously agree with you as a general principle, don't forget that other kids may have stuff going on you don't know about.

Our school does quite a lot of work on inclusive play- if yours doesn't it might be worth talking to the SENCO about some strategies for the playground.

I get it, I really do. I have a DD with SN and a DD with ASD.

DD1 went to special primary school and it really was inclusive - she was friends with children with PMLD who used wheelchairs and were non-verbal, children who were minimally verbal, children who were severely autistic, children like her, who had moderate needs...it made no difference.

However, I have realised, when she transitioned to Special secondary school, that even within a school for children with learning disabilities, there will be the mean kids, the kids who don't get along, the kids who, frankly, just don't have time for the sort of person she is.

What's important is teaching her how to handle that, because she'd love to be friends with everyone. So I have to teach her that it's ok for someone not to like her, to decide that she's not their kind of person. That she can share a space with them and not get cross that they don't want to play. Because the society she will live in is not a homogenous, harmonious one. People don't like other people. Not everyone 'wants to play'.

DD2, by contrast, had no friends in primary at all. Now, in Secondary, she's got a small group of friends who embrace her oddities and love her for who she is. They accept that she doesn't answer the phone if she has nothing to say, that she's a bit awkward, etc. She's just her.

I think it would go a long way if parents at least tried to educate their children on inclusion. (And I don't profess to have this subject nailed at all, but I'm trying for when my son grows up )

Yes being polite is obviously what we ask of our children, but if you really took the time to try and at least help your children see that meeting someone different doesn't mean you have to shy away and spending that extra few minutes getting to know someone and including them, you could actually see that they too can have similar interests, be funny and witty.

I have a toddler who has Down syndrome, the thought of him going through life just being tolerated breaks my heart.

@Gilbert82 I promise you he won’t go through is life “just being tolerated”. Three of my favourite people in the world have Down’s Syndrome (one also has ADHD) and my life would genuinely be a duller place without them. I’m not related to any of the three of them, no one “forced” me to be friends with them, I just met them through work, volunteering and church and love to spend time with them because of their infectious personalities, sense of humour and positivity. They’ve helped me through dark times. I promise you one day you’ll have people saying this about your son.