To think a lot of affluent people in the UK are quite miserable?

[AliceAbsolum]

Maybe it's the circles I move in, but I see so many people who are not happy. I'm assuming they're not happy because:

-They're on antidepressants
-They use alcohol or food excessively
-They talk about moving away to a different place
-They talk about struggling with everyday life (kids/parents/jobs)
-They have time off work for stress
-They work long hours and feel overwhelmed
-Some are obsessed with exercise and clean eating and seem very tense

I feel like living in the UK (and not in poverty, as that's a whole different story) is such a privilege. I wouldn't last a week living on a dollar a day without electricity or running water! So why are so many people miserable?
For me I have come to the conclusion that I need more time outside. I spent a lot of time, especially in the winter staring at a screen, I feel like I'm surrounded by concrete and consumed by work stress. I don't feel like I have a strong sense of community (small family who live far away, and no children as an older millennial).

Do you think most people you know are happy with the lifestyle and culture in the UK?

I do think social media fuels unhappiness and competitiveness.

I second the Affluenza book

I have experienced both grew up poor even by1970s standards and mid twenties became well off not aristocratic money but a fair bit. Actually for me it did make me happy because I appreciated every last penny and enjoyed all the positives it brought.

Then a decade ago after divorce I became more normal went back to work and now sit in a far modest position although I do have all those things a PP listed that can be considered normal but are actually luxuries. I immediately accepted this new position and didn’t plough my way through my divorce settlement I’ve kept it and my first job was on a railway station cafe serving coffee sweeping floors and emptying the bins.

I am hugely fortunate in having always been able to identify what is of value in life and just as well given my journey. My ex still drives top end cars , fancy holidays designer clothes and appears more miserable with every passing year. He actually told me when splitting he disliked my financial modesty because it didn’t speak of ambition !

Build - yes, I take antidepressants because I have mental illness

However, in times of less money and shit jobs, I took top level doses and still cried a lot from the sheer unpleasantness of working in a lower level job, where bullying culture is rife because we’re there because we have to be, and managers know this. And many get off on bullying stafff..

It is nice to be on a lower level dose. The side effects are less of an issue, I’m not on constant watch by the doctor etc

I expect to take them for life but having a bit more money definitely helped in the sense that I no longer have to do crazy long hours to pay bills.

Some breadwinners do feel trapped though. All the family benefits from their work (without the stess/misery) and all the family would have to cut back or experience hardship if they cut back. Especially if you consider the new job might have its own stressess and difficultie so they might put their kids through hardship to still feel stressed or explain to a spouse that the home they love is now going up for sale. Its just how it feels to some breadwinners.

Social media is a lifesaver for me, and I think many other introverts. I can still have a funny conversation- several in one evening - but I don’t have to go out and deal with people overload or have the stress of entertaining. I can opt in and out if the chat when I like.

The locals I know from Twitter mostly chat on Twitter and we have a real life meet up once a month or something.

This thread is making me worry a bit about DH - higher earner in the family, does the brighton to london commute everyday. He seems happy enough but I suppose he's only 31.

I’m worried about the environmental impact of more high speed rail, but the sooner we reduce south eastern overcrowding the happier people will become. I only only visit London these days and I can never wait to get away from it again, it is the constant lack of humanity people display as they’re all so busy that gets me down.

And don’t try taking a buggy on a liftless tube, that’s not an experience I’d like to repeat.

Pondering this... I was listening to the most recent addition to the Chernobyl podcast series and there was a comment about a subject I’ve wondered about before.
They discussed the response to the show and one of the surprising responses, when looking at the soviet era, was a fond reminiscence of the era from some of those who lived it.
And it’s an interesting idea - they had much less in every sense: money, opportunities, freedom etc. But is it possible that it was easier to be happier or at least less stressed? Charlie Brooker has discussed this theory frequently that our modern lives of choice are paralysing and when coupled with the constant stream of consumerism along with social media and TV constantly showing us affluent lives, it’s not surprising that we can feel that ours are never matching up and that we’ve lost touch with what happiness actually is, or how to get it.

Some breadwinners do feel trapped though. All the family benefits from their work (without the stress/misery)

I had the same thought. The sobbing man who commutes to Waterloo could actually be breaking under the pressure of being the main breadwinner; facilitating a stay at home / part timer partner, cost of the kids, debt, car, household expenses. Some people have a partner that won’t or can’t work and therefore take on all the burden which is a lonely palace to be. And the worst thing is they can’t quit because who will pay for everything.

He seems happy enough but I suppose he's only 31

I don’t think age matters. If anything the 30/40 age is the hardest place to be. Large mortgage or rent, kids to support, potentially having to help ageing parents, trying to move up the career ladder. It’s a lot to balance.

Otoh, if one person works very long hours and has an uncertain schedule, it makes it hard for that person to share a parenting load and can make a second serious job in the family too hard - I know, we tried.

TheHodge But is it possible that it was easier to be happier or at least less stressed?

Hmmn, well as long as you weren't informed on by your neighbour for speaking out against the state and imprisoned on hard labour in one of the Siberian gulags, then possibly so. I think for some people who aren't aspirational, perhaps it was. But I think the Soviet Union lost a lot of clever and talented people by treating them as enemies of the state for speaking out and using their brains to think of alternatives.

I think for many people it was incredibly stressful. There is a happy medium. I was on a cycling holiday in the Hungarian countryside recently, and you basically still get peasants living in rural villages, but the houses are quite nice, detached, often with an acre or so of garden. And my friend turned to me and said "So I work all the hours that god sends in order to pay a mortgage, and I have a lower standard of living than a Hungarian peasant?"

It’s the reason rural poverty exists - it’s a well known trap on getting people out of unemployment - moving where the jobs are often means moving to somewhere grotty in a city.

Oh yes QualCheckBot I’m more than personally aware of just how awful life was under those circumstances and I do think there is a fair accusation of we look at the past with rose tinted spectacles.
But it’s still an interesting thought to consider and I know there’s been plenty written on it by people far more eloquent than me!

I can relate to this. We have a big house in an expensive area, kids in private school and what looks like a pretty nice life, friends say we make it look easy. But we work so hard for it and we're both pretty tired, I just feel we don't enjoy life as much as other people do.

Obviously we could downsize and do state school but once you get used to particular expectations then it is difficult to adjust them downwards, it's much easier if those things are never in reach in the first place.

We have a savings / investment plan which should mean life gets easier in a few years time, but right now I just feel like it's a never ending, exhausting hamster wheel.

I think people need to change their thought patterns on this.
I think I've read about it somewhere.
Happiness isn't a destination that you arrive at. It isn't a place you can get to and stay there!
I'm fed up of thinking am I happy? Am I sad etc etc?
We spend too much time thinking these thoughts! It's making us unhappy ...

It’s a very interesting question.

I’ve seen friends who are unhappy for whatever reason think that they’ll be happy when they have that promotion/the higher salary/the better house/the more affluent lifestyle. Then they get it and they’re still not happy. So they strive for the next ring, in the hope that happiness is there. And so it goes on and on, all the time accruing a more costly lifestyle (bigger mortgage etc) locking them into a situation that’s harder and harder to step down from. When you’re miserable, an exotic holiday is a commiseration. Lose the big salary and you might still be miserable without any of the compensations.

And that’s before considering the social aspect - we tend to socialise with people similar to us, whether that’s that we work in the same sorts of place, do the same hobbies and interests, children at the same school or whatever. Drop the big salary and stop doing those things and you might lose all your friends too. It would be nice to think that wouldn’t happen but a lot of friendships are situational - think of all the ‘mates’ we’ve had at work only for the acquaintance to slide away when we or they leave the company.

It’s easier to get out of the affluence trap than the poverty trap, but not easy, much as it should be in theory. Our society and our social values are built on attaining and achieving social status, it’s probably hardwired into us as a survival mechanism.

OP, it's an assumption to make that someone is "not happy" solely because they are taking antidepressants. I have been taking antidepressants for some years because I find it the best way to manage a chemical/serotonin imbalance that causes major depression; but I feel perfectly happy and contented with my life otherwise! You can't equate depressive illness with "being a bit miserable", it's this kind of ignorance about mental health which makes those of us with it so despairing.

Dismal weather, high population density, poor transport and infrastructure

Actually there’s evidence that people get more job satisfaction from higher paid jobs. It’s only on MN that these individuals are viewed as miserable slaves to the rat race

I think it’s more about attitude than affluence.

DH and I are both high earners and are very happy.
We never, ever try to keep up with the Joneses.

I don’t think anyone knows what we earn. Family and close friends know we’re well-paid but wouldn’t know to what extent.
If someone asks me what I do, I give them a very generic “I work in an office” response and don’t go in to a huge amount of detail.

We have one car. It’s very nice and a luxury make, but nothing ridiculously extravagant.

We tend to not discuss our income, or purchases with others.

It always amuses me when friends post pictures of their dinner on Instagram with their designer bag strategically placed on the background, or their new manicure modeled against the logo-ed wheel of their BMW. I’d never do that.

Because nobody knows how well off we are, we never feel under pressure to work harder, earn more, buy more, buy more often etc. We have lots of lovely things but because we want them, not because we want others to see we have them.

I had to go to London whilst using crutches recently. Commuting during rush hour and just about everyone was actually pretty considerate about keeping out of my way, making sure they didn't knock into me. It did restore my faith in humanity a bit!

Money doesn't buy happiness but financial resources can give you security which goes a long way towards making you happier. I've been on the bones of my arse and am now comfortable and I know which one is easier. That said, I do think that we buy too much crap and that we need to make an effort to rein that in. A friend of mine recently pointed out that you can afford to retire once you can live within your savings (pension) - and that the more money you spend on stuff means that you'll have to work longer.

"But we work so hard for it and we're both pretty tired, I just feel we don't enjoy life as much as other people do."

The grass isn't greener. Other people look at you and think you've got it easy, not knowing how exhausted and dissatisfied you are. And you look at them, thinking how much more enjoyable their lives are, but they're worried about paying a bill, whether their car will pass its MOT, whether they can afford to move to the catchment of that great school.

Working long hours is hard but taking a step back brings its own challenges.

"Wealth doesn't inure you against bereavement, ill health"

It lets you have time to grieve though. Poorer people are given 8 weeks run on Carers Allowance after a spouse dies.

Also get given six months before they have to start applying for jobs if they arent employed in a paid job. But some work coaches have started applying pressure after two weeks.

Grieving is now considered a luxury and not allowed if you are poor.

Why do people always assume that problems are unique to the UK?

Interesting thread OP.

I too believe we can get into the mindset of always wanting more. I do not feel satisfied with where I am at my age and with my level of qualifications. Whilst I am in management I am nowhere near director level. Many younger than me have already achieved this.

I would like the four bed house with the white gate in a nice area, send our dc to private school, hire a cleaner/gardener. My childhood was a poor one and it has shaped my relationship with money. I remember the embarrassment at having far less than my friends. I remember having one pair of shoes for school and one for the weekend. I have a secret desire to 'make it' to prove to myself that I have escaped being poor. I have a desire to walk inti high end shops and buy what the hell I want without having to discreetly look at the price tag.

I want my DC to have the opportunities I did not. I want to give them a deposit for their home and support them throughout university.

I am highly ambitious but not nearly pushy or ruthless enough which has been a major hindrance.

@RosaWaiting the documentary is on Netflix - it's called Minimalism: A documentary about the important things.