To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

I hope my dc miss that caked up make up shouting stage that people are talking about however. The 14 year old is great so far,

I hated walking around British towns wondering if the hooded teen I was passing was going to randomly stab me.

@Screamanger tongue in cheek surely!? I live in inner city Leeds and have never felt threatened.
In the USA I had 2 weeks vacation a year in corporate America, 3 months maternity leave unpaid, constant competitiveness, high cost of medical care and childcare.

We were lucky and created our own business. The USA is very supportive of entrepreneurs but the UK is catching up fast.

Maybe it’s various parts of the UK that are particularly depressing. But you’ll get that in the US too.

This thread is so one sided though. You only have to look at gun statistics.

@Otherpeoplesteens, there is no "class".

Haven’t read everything but DH is American, lived here all his life. I’ve lived here for 3 years. He was born and raised in Southern California (Santa Barbara) but always dreamed of living somewhere else. When we talk about our childhoods he always thinks I had the better childhood growing up in the UK. Seeing what life is like for our nieces and nephews here and how it is for our nieces and nephews back in the UK, I have to agree with DH that growing up in the UK is “better”. One of our nieces attends a school that had an active shooter two years ago. All the nice weather, beautiful scenery, diner jobs, driving at 15, sports events in the world do not compensate for that. Never will. I absolutely never want any one in my family in that situation ever again.

Another thing re. distance - UK is Europe. Many other countries you can visit just by a short haul flight. Fancy a weekend in Rome or Paris - no problem. As i talk to my friends in the US, it seems like for them just to go out of their state is a massive journey, going abroad - almost unimaginable luxury.

Terrifying BritWife I don’t blame you. I wouldn’t either.

@FishCanFly absolutely on our pro list when we were debating moving back.

I really think it's hard to appreciate how absolutely amazing Europe and the UK are till you leave for an extended period of time.

We never thought we'd move back - we have a US business, we're all US citizens and loved our lifestyle but missed SO much about the UK that we sold up and risked everything to return. I have no regrets yet and my career is on an upward trajectory here with more benefits than I ever imagined.

I've never been to the U.S., but I don't recognise the OP's description of the UK. Where I live, kids are out on bikes, in the park, and round each other's houses. My 11yo is really looking forward to starting secondary school in September (not a quivering wreck at the thought of 16 year-olds being there). I'm not a massive fan of uniform, but it's not really a big issue. I've never seen big gangs of intimidating teenagers here or in the previous place I lived.
It seems ludicrously naive to assume 'childhood in the US' is like that one place you've just visited, and that everyone has the same experience of the UK as you do.

whotheeff

No not tongue in cheek unfortunately. In the UK I experienced being mugged at knifepoint, and punched by a gang of youths. Plus the standard thefts, and brake-ins.

This all happened in nice areas of Guilford, Bath and Reading.

@Screamanger I'm sorry to hear that.

In the USA though break ins at gun point are common place and car jacking.

I just mentioned to my husband that the sad death of a policeman would NEVER make headline news in the USA as it is so common.

You have to compare like with like. I bet the US is just as scary and violent in places.

And the opposite is true of both countries.

whotheeff

Really, I have lived in the US for 5 years and never heard that, what state? I never even lock my car or house.

I never really see guns, I know neighbors have them but that’s it

My kids grew up in a little suburb near a city. Middle-middle class, mostly single homes and apartments. Kids could walk and bike everywhere--to school, to the library, to the one street in town that had little shops, to the bus and train to the city. I don't know anyone who had guns. Kids visited each others houses after school and I was always amused to hear how many little tidbits my kids had been fed by other indulgent mothers on the way home. Our neighborhood was very multicultural and my kids' friends were Korean, Egyptian, Iranian, Croatian, everything. I feel as if parents were very nice to kids in my town, and kids expected to be respectful to adults in turn. They were sweet kids and from what I have seen, many of my kids' generation have turned out to be very nice and successful adults who are still kind to us.

To the people using the term "middle class", it is an offensive, and very old fashioned term.

@Screamanger Atlanta, Ga for 18 years - just moved back last year.

When I first moved to the United states I was very struck by how very different older people are to in the UK and Ireland.

This is.very dependent on the people. My in laws have a very full social life. Everything is in a diary, they put themselves out there and join lots of clubs. They travel a lot and have busy lives.

My own father doesn’t do anything much.

Neither of them look after grandchildren.

How on earth is the term “middle class” offensive?

To the people using the term "middle class", it is an offensive, and very old fashioned term.

What?

Class structure is very much alive in the UK. The US doesn't have the English class system, but it most definitely has a variation of a class system too.

Ahhh, everyone watch out. The professionally offended have entered the thread.

To the people using the term "middle class", it is an offensive, and very old fashioned term.

I forgot, in Britain, we're all meant to be equally miserable together. Motivation, aspiring to things, all dirty words. Its now so effectively socialist in the UK that it made living in supposedly more socialist countries on the continent seem positively right wing to me in comparison. The Opposition in the UK are basically communists! Try to point out the obvious and you are bombarded with "government cutbacks, poverty, etc how dare you speak out". "Count yourself lucky to be able to go out to work". It makes Janteism seem positively laissez-faire.

So gradually, we all get more miserable together in the UK.

I guess it depends on whereabouts you are. I watched a documentary about an area in Chicago where African-Americans live and where in one school every single schoolgirl in a class - I mean every one of them - had been raped or sexually abused. This was eye-opening. Yet I'm sure there are middle-class (and I make no apologies for using that term) neighbourhoods in the same city where teenagers have a great quality of life and great opportunities.

I live in NI where I think the quality of life is extremely good generally. We are close to beaches and have excellent schools and good health care (free prescriptions, not that I benefit much from this). But our climate isn't great for long parts of the year (long dark winter days) and the health and safety culture referred to above means that citizens lose out due to an anti-social minority. I've seen examples of playparks being vandalised and people being scared to go on riverside walks due to anti-social youths. The 'soft touch' approach punishes law-abiding and responsible citizens. We also have fewer public right-of-way paths and bridle-paths here than in England.

Because there is no class. The class system is incredibly old and antiquated, and out of all the countries that I go to in Europe, I only ever here it referred to in England. It always makes me cringe with disbelief, it is so old fashioned.
I was reading a different forum recently, and on that forum, a foreigner wrote that he was staying with his friend in England. The English friend said that he was "middle class", but that when he goes to visit his mechanic, he puts on a "working class" accent so that the mechanic thinks that he is "one of them", and gives him a good price.
The foreigner said he looked at his friend in amazement.

If you don't see how derogatory a class system is, shame on you.

I think it’s obvious by now that saying there’s one American experience is bonkers. I live America-adjacent (I can see it from the beach near our house) & know it’s a large country with wide socio-economic variety, problems with racism, gun violence, and organizes religion. It also has amazing scenery, some fascinating history and culture, and there are parts I’d love to visit (I have been of course, but there are vast areas I haven’t seen).

Some odd ideas I’ve seen about Canada on the thread that I wanted to address. We pay for dental and eyeglasses and pay towards prescriptions. I pay CA$4.00 a month toward my medication for example. Dr’s visits, any hospital stays etc are completely free.

First Nations people do die violently more than other Canadians but this is largely a function of living in poverty (whole bunch of reasons for that, mostly racism). Mostly FN people are dying at the hands of other FN people (according to the RCMP).

Canada is a big country - anywhere I’ve seen, and the two cities I’ve lived in, have pavements/sidewalks and pretty decent public transit. Vancouver’s public transit is great with buses and skytrains. Toronto has busses and subways. Kids walk, bike, take the bus (though you couldn’t pay me money to bike in Vancouver, it’s way too hilly, but people bike there a lot).

The weather varies. Yes, much of Canada has cold winters. I wouldn’t know from personal experience, I live on the west coast. It snows here every other year, about an inch and then melts by the next door (to the cries of the children), and about every 5-8 years or so we get a proper snowfall that lasts a week. Mostly on the coast it just rains for months on end from November-March.

Teenagers here are, for the most part, polite and decent humans. There is an opioid crisis out here, that’s very worrying. One of my kids spent a year abroad and half the kids were Brits. He said (& I imagine this totally varies based on class and region) that the Brits had “a really weird drinking culture”. I noticed in photos that the North American girls looked very relaxed, makeup free. The British girls (mostly English, one Scot) were dressed to the nines, face full of slap, hair in up-do’s - and this was an outdoors, hiking kind of gap year. May well not represent most British teens, but it was visually striking the difference between the North American girls and the British ones (boys looked the same).