To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

I think it's nice for kids to go to school without being afraid of being shot but whatever floats your boat!

Everything is pricey here though thanks to the pound.

Ah the American dream. Though , I met an American teacher in Spain, and he told me that Europeans see a very glamourised version of the U.S.A on the t.v. He talked alot about gangs

To the people on here that are now living in the U.S.A- how did you get a visa? I would like to live there, but it seems very difficult to get a visa to move there.

I grew up in the US and I do sometimes wonder if I’ve made the right choice raising my child in the UK. The weather and lack of space get to me a bit.

Growing up I think of all the fun we had outside, all the fun seasonal stuff, and I wonder if I’m keeping my kid from forming some of those great memories that I have.

Yes, there are drawbacks to living in the US and it depends on where you live and how much money you have. But for me personally, I do wonder if it’s a better place to raise our child.

What state are you from @Kescilly?

totally depends where you live - my uncle's outreach centre was on this street... not exactly heaven on earth... not there now, it got burned down.

@angell84 I'm originally from Illinois.

One of the absolute best things that we can do for our own development is live in different countries. It makes you stop getting caught up in the craziness of any one country. And it has also made me see - that we only do things at all, because the government in our country tells us to do it thet way.

We would all live much, much easier and more independent lives if there were no governments. There is no need for the world to be the way it is.

School- a government construct -control children from 5 - 18 with hard work.
Work - control the adults from 18 - 65 by making them work five days a week.

This is not the natural way to live.
Begin to question the government and the set up of your country

Not if your kids are black it is not better. Personally I want mine to not die because police are scared of how they look because they 'think' they may have a gun

When they visit they love the way my DC just catch the train to London for the day with their friends (older teens but doing this from mid teens).

We live in a northern town

I’m surprised that the rail costs don’t prohibit the teens from ‘just jumping on the train with their friends into Londonfor the day. I can’t imagine anybody doing it with too much frequency tbh.

I wouldn't live in the US because of racism but more importantly fear of the police.

A friend of mine - who is white - has a camera pointing into his car as well as one pointing out in case he gets stopped by the police. He has absolutely no trust of the police even more so because his wife isn't white. (They both are US and UK citizens but his wife was British first.)

When he's looked at places for them to live, had to look very careful to check his wife felt comfortable in the area even before suggesting they went to view places.

There as in the UK it was a case of suggesting places and just knowing there were other non-white people in the area then going to view the property.

Oh and this is ignoring my own experiences in the US on holiday with a mixed race group of people.

In regards to children - it really depends on where you live. My own, my family's and other people I know have lots of clubs they can go to. At secondary school you were fine if you were 11/12 as long as you behaved. You had independence from 11 as you can get out and about on public transport and your bike. Lots of 11 year olds in my area cycle to school.

I know what you mean OP. I have lived briefly in the US and visited the scandi countries often and they all seem to have an overall lifestyle that we just don't get in the UK. It's as if we've lost common sense how to live a good life! People seem to have lost the overall feeling of personal responsibility when it comes to littering, vandalism and caring for each other. It's overcrowded, over built and all activities are based on money and profit. Schools are overly controlling and treat parents as enemies rather than partners in children's education. Class system makes lower classes resent their position in society and the upper ones have a polite but distant attitude to anyone beneath them. If it wasn't for the gun culture I'd move to the US in a heartbeat.

BasilTheGreat I was raised in a Scandinavian country and my childhood was like this.

Same here, but lived in Holland and Germany. Its normal there for children and teens to cycle to work and to cycle to after school activities together, without the constant parental presence that seems essential in the UK.

Children do hobbies after school. I remember being in France on holiday and seeing the local cycling club getting ready to go out training, it was mainly comprised of teenagers. And then you think how sad it is that their British counterparts will be looking to get their first car, or drugs hit and they would consider something like cycling deeply uncool.

MoltoAgitato You’re seeing the very, very nice parts of America, and the result of a society that’s incredibly stratified by socioeconomic class.

But there are at least nice parts for people to have jobs to live in. Here, you can all so easily end up in being abused just because you've gone shopping. When me and DH hired a car and went out exploring on holiday in Turkey recently, we found it so less threatening because we didn't have the usual abuse shouted at us or gestures from the car behind tailgating us, although everyone warned us it would be way more "dangerous" than driving here.

The UK has become so grim that teenagers pelting firecrew with stones and bottles has become a real thing for them to deal with on a regular basis.

Its as if the policies in the UK over the years are designed to drag everyone down so as to share the misery equally and ensure no-one does too well or enjoys themselves too much.

Activity seems to be a natural part of their lifestyle. They do do much. The parks are full of kids and adults doing sports. They all seem to hike and bike even older generations.
When I first moved to the United states I was very struck by how very different older people are to in the UK and Ireland. So much more active and fully living and enjoying their retirement. Rather than being seen as free childcare as they "have nothing better to do".

Owlbaby5 the salt water pool is crumbling on the floor with hand rails coming away( would be closed down in UK for months)

I honestly think the obsession with building everything from new and knocking down perfectly serviceable facilities is a way to prop up certain chosen building firms and contractors at public expense.

I live close to a small town which has a lovely leisure centre with 25m indoor swimming pool. Its about 30 years old and really very modern and pretty nice. For some reason, it is being knocked down to be replaced by a new leisure centre with a 25m swimming pool offering exactly the same facilities but at a cost of £20 million. No additional facilities, no running track or anything.

Its particularly rampant in Scotland. When we lived there, we used to joke that there were so many public projects going on building new leisure centres that the economy would collapse totally without them. I think that's probably true.

I'd have thought your friends would have picked a nice area to move to if they were uprooting their lives, and to get a green card must have had a decent job to go to. It really does depend what part you go to, some areas have a big issue with crime which makes the occassional yob on street corners seen like nothing. I do like America and Canada is absolutely beautiful, but I would take the snapshot of the life you saw them have there with a pinch of salt. Depends where in the UK you live as well, plenty of children out playing these holidays here.

Childhood maybe more idyllic, but then adult life seems so much more stressful. i wouldn't really mind the gun culture, but the healthcare costs? Also the distances. Here, if you live in a city, you almost can walk everywhere,and public transport, however shitty, is available.

One thing I've noticed about the UK, is that people love banning things here rather than making others take responsibility.

Example:

Playgrounds and yobs (hooligans for Americans).

UK reaction: New build estate decides to not build playgrounds anymore because it attracts yobs and residents complain.

US reaction: cops are called and yobs/hooligans are put in juvenile hall for any crimes committed.

The soft touch means other people lose out.

I live in a naice middle class village in the north west and my kids have exactly this lovely outdoorsy lifestyle. It's a middle class thing though; a wealth thing rather than a question of country.

I've recently been to America, and what struck me most, even as a white person, was how massively racist it is. New York was like a different country to other places in that respect; it felt much more integrated.

Interesting what Yabbers said about disability. As a wheelchair user, I found attitudes in the US pretty much on a par with the UK, certainly no worse. New York was fine for us, though I agree there were less w/c users about.

Childhood maybe more idyllic, but then adult life seems so much more stressful.

As a adult it is much less stressful in the USA. In the UK I worried constantly about bills, and money. We had no life because we couldn’t afford one. Work stress was terrible. Life in the UK was a depressing gloomy sea of grey where all we did was attempt to survive, while Bering surrounded by cold uncaring people who continued on blindly with their own version of gloomy monotonous survival.

I hated walking around British towns wondering if the hooded teen I was passing was going to randomly stab me.

Here, if you live in a city, you almost can walk everywhere,and public transport, however shitty, is available.
I live in a large city in the US. I walk to work and pretty much everywhere else. There is a great underground and commuter rail system so those of my coworkers that live in the suburbs come to work by public transportation. We have so many wonderful parks with free fitness classes and concerts all summer long.

I get more time off work than I did in the UK.

So many sad stereotypes on this thread from people who visited one area or base their ideas on movies or television.

Screamanger you do paint a depressing picture!

I love London and growing up in rural place - kind of idyllic I suppose reading the responses in that there was loads of space, sunshine, and beaches - I can see that it’s not all that great. Pros and cons to both.

For my home town there was boredom for teens and no jobs so you had to strive to leave.

I lived in the US for a year but didn’t go to school there. It was nice but not better really.

It was nice mostly because I was at college having a great time.

Its as if the policies in the UK over the years are designed to drag everyone down so as to share the misery equally and ensure no-one does too well or enjoys themselves too much.

I fear that there is more than a grain of truth to this. In government policy it is called "reducing inequality".

I've lived in various places around the world, mostly Asia but also Portugal, and although objective measures of living standards are comparatively high here in the UK, quality of life does seem very difficult for ordinary people. Even those in good jobs seem to struggle to live comfortable lives here in a way that is not repeated elsewhere in the developed world. I can think of half a dozen places I've lived in around the world where a middle class family can easily escape the drugs, the crime, the poor education (in terms of both aspiration and attainment), and live healthy wholesome lives, but it seems relentless here in the UK.

But what a PP said about toxic teenager-hood rings very true too. I cannot think of any other culture where teenagers are so much at loggerheads with their own parents for every reason and for no reason. The PP who mentioned that there is no concept of the difficult teenager in Portugal is spot-on: I know many Portuguese teens and they are all, almost without exception, both more mature than their UK counterparts yet at the same time more innocent. I've never seen a Portuguese 16 year old caked in make up or dressed like a WAG (or a slut) in the way I see it everywhere here.