To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

I think there are so many more opportunities for children to be involved in whatever activities they want in America and Canada. Like running? There's a club for that. Like team sports? There's a club for that. Good at French? Let's move you up a year for French lessons. Like writing? Join the school paper. Maybe it's different in cities, but other than team sports there were never opportunities like that for me.

I can't quite believe that you don't have all that in the UK. I'm in Ireland and my 6yo DS is in a running club, a hurling (Irish team sport) club, a swimming club and a large scale drama group. The only reason he is only in those groups is because I don't want to schedule any more of his time when he is little but he could be doing soccer, gymnastics, rugby, aerial/circus, scouts, arts, martial arts etc. He's campaigning hard for gymnastics and coding, so possibly after Christmas he'll start those, but I'd honestly prefer that he drop something before starting something new. We're also both in a skating group where we rink, park and river skate. All of this is in walking distance of our house.

And we're in a camping club where we go camping with the same group of people throughout the year. So DS gets to have lots independent of adventures with the same group of kids. DS is a bit of an anomaly wherein he goes to a fulltime forest school, so his childhood is the utter definition of idyllic. It's easy to go to school every morning when your main activity is hanging about in nature with friends. And your only uniform is weather appropriate clothing. School holidays in Ireland are 9 weeks in summer for primary aged children and 12/13 for secondary age. I work school terms and hours, so I can completely work around his activities.

Third level education is as close as it gets to free here. Healthcare is heavily subsidised. Our politics are excessively moderate for the most part due to our proportional representation system forcing our governments to rely heavily on consensus. The absolute worst aspect of where we live is that we are still having to escape some aspects of the fact that we were a veritable theocracy until 25 years ago. Most of our schools still have a heavy, heavy religious influence that no longer matches our religious demographics, values or lifestyles. But we have managed to sidestep that, thankfully. And our weather really is famously shit but our lifestyle is now outdoorsy enough to work around it.

It depends on where you live. I’m in a beach town suburb of NYC and for sure it’s very nice. We have a town golf course, skate park, playgrounds, outdoor ice rink, sailing schools, rowing clubs, multiple playing fields etc—all of which are easily accessible for children on bicycles. Children definitely remain children for longer.

But a few towns over and there’s dreadful poverty. Also a man in an adjacent town was just arrested for amassing weaponry to commit a mass shooting. So yeah, idyllic in one respect, and terrifying in another.

Such an interesting thread, will come back to it.

There are plenty of clubs here, I don't know where people get the idea from that there aren't, but maybe it depends where you live in the UK.

And in my experience teens are not the anti-social entitled ones, it's the adults.

I wouldn't want to live in the US. I am too European in my outlook.

As a Brit in the USA I much, much prefer the US to the UK. I would never move back to the UK. Kids in my state live the childhood OP described and that’s what I want for my kids. Every time I see my sisters kids in the UK they seem so depressed and board. The space and life I can afford for my family here would be impossible in the UK without a lottery win.

My kids will grow up living a very outdoors lifestyle with sports, campfires fishing and camping

Gun crime in the US is very geographically localized. I would estimate that 50% of my neighbors have guns but I have never seen one. DH gets just as much leave from work as he did in the UK. Healthcare and university costs are not as high as it is made out to be on here. It’s not something I worry about

They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US
Teenagers could be like this where I grew up but they aren't where I live now. It isn't everywhere. I remember noticing that teenagers were nicer when I moved here 20 years ago. Surely you must know there are intimidating teenagers in parts of the US. There are areas in the US where you are at risk of getting shot. I remember Miriam Margolys visiting one in her series where she travelled across the US

Good things and bad things both ways (and also Canada and the US are like chalk and cheese, I wouldn’t lump them together).

However, I do think a lot of the positives you mention are to do with the greater space available and the more ‘outdoorsy’ culture in both countries. A major drawback of living in the UK - in my opinion - is that it’s very small and incredibly overcrowded. But there are lots of advantages!

I think you could also move to ‘the continent’ to experience this. Much more wholesome outdoorsy- ness in the rest of Europe compared to the UK.

We’ve just been saying the exactly same op. We’ve been in the US for a few weeks travelling round a variety of environments.We’ve all noticed it.

The kids are kids and dressed like kids( ie for comfort and the outdoors).

Kids seem to need less and amuse themselves with less. There is less whining and demanding.

They all seem to truly love, enjoy and make the most of the outdoors. The amazing scenery probably helps.

They are loss worried about ridiculous health and safety issues. Just been staying on a basic holiday resort in the wilds for a night( our priciest stop).Kind of what I imagine Centre parks to be like but cheaper and wikder/nicer. There are no tacky restaurants, the kids are roaming by themselves on scavenger hunts even though the area is surrounded by water, it’s huge and they’re cycling everywhere, the salt water pool is crumbling on the floor with hand rails coming away( would be closed down in UK for months) everybody is just enjoying it, bar a helmet you don’t sign your life away when renting bikes, kids playing out in the dark everywhere...

Everybody is more active everywhere.

People are politer, quieter and more cheerful.

Everything is so damn easy. Want to stop off for ice cream in a popular town you just do. No circling for parking, lines go down very quick everywhere, how do they manage that?

The simple things like ice cream, watching the sunset, cycling, hiking etc are valued. Unlike the uk which focuses on tacky chain restaurants and spending huge amounts of money.

People care less about clothes and dress far more casually. You can go for a hike and turn up to a restaurant in your shorts, same as everybody else.....

They value their beautiful spaces more. No trash left on beaches or in NP. They seem to be stricter on how such places are treated. Have to say the parking is extortionate at $20 a day( less for residents) in some beaches and NP but they do seem to be managed better.

The optimism, it’s so refreshing.

There seems to be the same worry re Trump, health and guns in the places we’ve visited.Whose to say as a nation they won’t sort both eventually. It feels very safe here in both cities and in rural places.

We have Canadian family and have visited. I don’t like Canada as much. Could live in the US( maybe not out in the real wilds)but not Canada.

Absolutely agree with you about the middle school system - I taught in an area (UK) that had middle schools and the atmosphere for the year 7s and 8s was so much happier. Year 9 feels like a more natural age to transition to the 'big school' to me. I also think the June/July/August summer holiday is good (though I think they have that in Ireland too?). And I'm no fan of school uniform, so that would suit us too.

In fact dd1 is desperate to live in the US when she leaves home. Perhaps we should be considering it!

Have to say I can see why the US does better than us in sporting events. Activity seems to be a natural part of their lifestyle. They do do much. The parks are full of kids and adults doing sports. They all seem to hike and bike even older generations.

My husband and I travel to the States every couple of years, primarily to Silicon Valley. I absolutely love it. Some of our colleagues there are millionaires and their lifestyle is unbelievable. Everything you describe and more, OP. We also spend time in Utah which is also glorious. Moab is something else. My husband would move in a heartbeat but I never will. I'm content to visit but IMO there is a vast gulf between the haves and have nots. The gun culture would affect me too much and besides, I love my home here. We live in a beautiful rural area where kids can be kids and the schools are fantastic. And we have the NHS.

Brit in Canada and I can say hand on heart that kids seem happier here.

DS starts school in two weeks and from what I've seen it seems incredibly well organised and child - orientated. The daycare (subsidised heavily by the gov) has been incredible : homemade food, massive play area outside, lots of 'forest school' without the silly terminology if you like!

Kids do still 'play outside' and run around looking happy.

And the brutal winters are a small price to pay IMHO.

Sounds like a lovely place @Owlbabie5! Where are you? Could you ping me over some details as this sounds just up our street?

I am English, I have lived all around the world, and I know what the problem with England is.
People have closed their hearts. There is too strict of a class system, (rich better than poor), and there is little compassion and empathy for other people. This is causing all the nastiness and fighting in England.

When my friend comes to visit me in England, he says , "The people are so cold".

Did you mean the holiday park we stayed in for a night or the whole area as we’ve moved round a lot. Said holiday place has a variety of accommodation cabins or rooms. We’ll return but to a cabin with a kitchen as there are no other eating options for miles. Had to pay $14 each for breakfast. Lovely but couldn’t afford that for several days. It’s like a holiday camp for families. You’ll die when you see the pics, it’s so beautiful. Just dming now.

The English are colder than the Scandinavians from what I have experienced.

Angel we were saying yesterday god only knows what Americans think of us when they visit.

We have family in Canada and went out to see them last year for around 2 weeks .Great country ,but I dont think you can judge what it will be like to live there long term on such a visit.There are good and bad things for each Country TBH.!.Holidays start at 2 weeks going up to 3 or 4 ,the health care system is expensive .As someone else points out the driving absolutely everywhere is difficult ,and with large towns a long way apart ,Very long queues of traffic at Rush hour!.Some children will still be sporty in the UK too !.

Lets all have a bit more empathy and compassion for each other in England. Just because we have been doing something for a long time ( the class based system) doesn't mean we have to keep doing it.

I also wish that I had grown up in America. Alot of us do, don't we? It is the most developed country in the world. It is the luck of the draw where we are born. Maybe next life!

I don’t wish I’d grown up in the US

I grew up in Aus though which was mentioned earlier by a pp

Having said that - I wish I had grown up in the U.S.
I guess I wish that I had grown up in a nice area in the U.S with a nice well - off family. That's the dream. Again, it is luck of the draw where some-one is born in the U.S. I am aware that States in themselves are very different.
A teacher friend of mine from one of the Southern States told me that women are still treated like property, and that she was raped as a child.

Eating out is so much better too. Where we live in the UK it’s a struggle to find decent places to eat that aren’t chains. You get less, often it’s not cooked that well and service is shite. We’ve only got a small budget here, maybe we’ve been lucky but it’s a much more pleasurable experience.

I think London is far better than America for eating out. More range and food that isn't adapted for a Western palate

Yes NYC had that in spades but even there the service was better. Out in the wilds the quality and service continues though. It doesn’t in the UK. We are using LP and TA though for guidance. Where we live in the UK unless you want fine dining TA comes up with very little that is affordable.