To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

Everywhere has culture and history. There's just isn't particularly interesting unless perhaps you're a white supremacist of some description. Maybe then you'll be into all the Confederate stuff.

Oh animals. It's a good place to see some animals. Particularly aquatic animals.

But you're not going to come back "cultured" hence why they hold things that are European in such great esteem. A well spoken, cultured American essentially behaves like a rich Brit. Think the character Frasier or James Spader. Almost accentless with a transatlantic twang.

The film industry that made actors and actresses what they are today started in the UK. Still till this day, you're not really counted as an esteemed actor until you make a well received film at Cannes. Low budget, Euro indie film? That's a cultured actor. Hollywood? You're probably just pretty.

@Kewlwifee There's just isn't particularly interesting unless perhaps you're a white supremacist of some description. Maybe then you'll be into all the Confederate stuff.

ODFOD

Half of our biggest musicians from Dusty Springfield to the Rolling Stones to Adele have made their bones aping African-American styles of music. But of course you're right only white supremacists can get anything out of America.

I’m afraid I think you’re being very ignorant. Europe being very cultured (and I agree it is) doesn’t mean other countries are not.

Sounds like your friends are lucky enough to live in a wealthy suburb and not downtown Shitsville. It sounds like you’re very favourably making comparisons because you don’t like where you live? For example, I’ve never been abused by a gang of teens, although once a bloke shouted out of a car at me that I was a ‘fat cunt’. So that was nice.

I think you’ve had a very rose tinted glasses view, just like if you go on holiday to the Caribbean and stay on an AI resort, never seeing the poverty in the shanty towns.

You're speaking as if those African American styles of music are championed in any meaningful way.

Yes it's very true (ever seen the docufilm about Sugarman?) that African American music has influenced most of the musical stars we revere today, but I'd say the African part of that has more to do with why this has happened and the way that it has happened than the American part. Remember, lots of black music was socially or legally prohibited and that's a big part of why it became popular. Rebel music as Bob Marley called it. It's another example of why much of what we see as American culture (especially considering that American culture means white culture,they'll say African American when referring to black culture) is inconsistent.

Do you think when Trump refers to American culture and making it great again, he's talking about Black Wall Street and racial equality? Of course not. You have Americans, and then you have Black Americans. Most of America do not see these people as the same group even though their presence in the country is about the same time period.

@Kewlwifee quite narrow minded and offensive. There's so much beauty and culture in the USA - just because we don't have history comparable to Europe. I wouldn't have stayed for 18 years if it was so goddamn awful. I totally embraced the Southern culture of music, nascar and food. Drive down the Mississippi delta and you'll see beauty like no other. Now I feel homesick.

Can I summarise for the OP:

I went to the states and smoked joints with an old schoolmate and really enjoyed myself, and am now a little bit melancholy coming home to my daily grind.

A lot of hanging around outside is due to better weather. In Spain, the teens hang around on the beach. They swim, sunbathe, play racket ball and volleyball.

Here hanging around in the beach means crates of alcohol and possibly a bonfire!!!

The sea is too cold to get into even if they wanted to which thankfully they don’t due to the copious amounts of alcohol they consume.

@Kewlwifee you're wrong on many levels - for the record I'm BME as are my relatives who are American, and I've lived there myself. The existence of racism in America doesn't in any sense mean that contributions of African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans etc to the culture don't count. There are Africans in many countries in the world, they do not all produce a Stevie Wonder or a Quincy Jones or WEB DuBois or Toni Morrison. America has culture - ignore it at your own loss.

Canada hands down I've yet to go there I've always had a fascination with Canada like something's drawing me there
I have said to my DH many of times if things got any worse here in the UK I would happily pick up the DCs and start our life over in Canada thankfully DH has a career that is very sort after in places like Canada and USA however Canada would be first pick over USA

I went to tour my diverse American family this year. All the young teens are very envious that ds age 10 can walk to school himself and that 11yos are expected to get to and from secondary independently. Apart from the ones who have school buses, the rest have never left the house not in a parent's car. Most have no sidewalks, simply cars speeding past at 55,and where there is a sidewalk it's only along 8 houses and then the highway.

Most of my family are liberal by US standards but what got me was the news articles on people rationing insulin because they can't afford it. Medicaid/care etc only cover you if you are truly destitute;others with such health needs are expected to work 3 jobs to cover costs. Can't cope with three jobs? Sucks to be you. It was the acceptance that it's sad but these things just happen and nothing can be done that really knocked me for six - similar to the acceptance of school and other mass shootings - there were three while I was there.

I don't mind guns for sport and hunting, and I can see why, if the nearest trained police are four hours away and the deputy one hour away is just an untrained guy with a gun, why you might choose to have a gun yourself rather than relying on theirs, but no-one needs machine guns in a home. And the fewer guns, the fewer accidents and successful suicide attempts.
The acceptance that water and medical care are luxuries is not something I want to live with - even if my uncle has become pretty good at ripoing off toenails and other small medical procedures.

The number of young teens stuck at home in holidays unable to escape the home, with nothing but the Internet for company - much rarer in the UK.
Though a bit of the traditional US get-off-your-backside-and-do-it-yourself attitude is a good thing - maintaining houses and building things is a point of pride - but IMO it too easily leads to judgement of those who can't.

All the UK (and US) teens I know seem to be growing into pleasant people - I do think UK teens are much maligned.

There are some rather narrow definitions of culture on here.

Yes, the USA doesn't have artefacts dating back 6000 years like, say, Stonehenge, or 16th century writers like Shakespeare.

But its contribution to the world's culture has been immense nonetheless.

Music - the blues, jazz, folk, rock and roll.
Art - the US has some of the greatest art galleries & museums in the world, with plenty of amazing US-produced art, not just European old masters. Warhol, Hopper, Rockwell, Rothko to name just a few of my favourites.
Theatre - Steppenwolf, Rodgers & Hammerstein, Arthur Miller, Tennessee Williams
Literature - Mark Twain, Henry James, Hemingway, Steinbeck
Film & TV - Cinema was virtually invented in Hollywood, some of the best & most influential TV writing is American - Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, The Simpsons .... etc etc etc

Generally I prefer uniforms in school but my eldest is off to secondary school this September and the uniform rules are unbelievably strict as are the punishments for not adhering to them seem so ott.

I do wonder why the UK is like this

You couldn't pay me to live over there.

Rasim is high... it like weve gone back 50 years.

School shootings are a very real threat You have kindergarten children learning drills on what to do if theres a shooter

The president is might as well be Hitler

The cost of living

Expensive healthcare - every one is out for them selfs imo.

The only thing they have going for them is you can learn to drive at school.

One thing I do find interesting is that when I see groups of teenagers in London who are on school trips and are from abroad, is how the girls dress so differently to British teenage girls. Usually the girls from abroad are dressed much more casual/tomboyish, no make up, no trying to look older, rucksacks rather than handbags.

I was in my local McDonald's at school kicking out time and the teenage girls had designer handbags as their school bags, hair highlighted, and the most ridiculous amount of contoured make up I've ever seen.

I went to schools both in the UK and the USA. I don't think it is country vs country but weather vs weather. Uk children miss out on so much because of crap weather, the US (where I was) had much better weather all year round and everyone had so much more fun and all free because it was guaranteed to be nice. I see my own teenagers not having that freedom and it breaks my heart.

I agree with the growing up too fast thing, everything is image here and it's just awful.

I would move to Australia or Canada if I could.

The only thing they have going for them is you can learn to drive at school.

In Ireland, teens learn driving theory in school.

I left school in the early 1990s and there was a teacher car park and a student car park. Not many drove but some did.

I think you've got a one-dimensional view of both the States and the UK. Not really representative of either.

My take we live in rural UK and have most of what your US kids have, even a running club for kids.

You couldn't pay me to live in the states, I've visited many times and my DB lives there - I have the massively over competitive one up man ship that seems to go on. the Guns - spent several months on a scout camp as a leader and had two incidents of guns being pulled on leaders (in Michigan). The unwritten laws, I really felt freer in the Middle East than the US at lease in the Middle East it's very black and white. I hated the yob culture in the USA chants. I could go on.

I think you need to maybe look beyond what you see in the UK - we used to have middle schools, they got rid of them. School uniform solves far more problems than it causes.

My well off American family want to relocate over here.
When they visit they love the way my DC just catch the train to London for the day with their friends (older teens but doing this from mid teens).
We live in a Northern town with amazing facilities that we have always encouraged them to take part in.
We chose to live here because of the facilities for families.
Riding, rowing, drama, cadets! (2 week summer army camp £40) brass band 50p per week! Rugby, football, running club, athletics club....you name it some enthusiastic volunteer has set it up.
The schools are good, the colleges great and free!
The GPs are good...and free.
DS had a nasty sporting accident a few weeks ago that required surgery....amazing free care.
My DC were pretty free roaming as well, even had kayaks to mess around in on the river.
Life is what you make it OP but I love the UK.

Riding, rowing, drama, cadets! (2 week summer army camp £40) brass band 50p per week! Rugby, football, running club, athletics club....you name it some enthusiastic volunteer has set it up.

Wtf? Where do you lIve?

I could go in but won’t..

I’ll throw in issues with disabilities.

Even in the progressive, more liberal New York, we were shocked how poorly we were treated with the wheelchair. The only other W/C users we saw were tourists or homeless people. I can’t believe in a city of millions there are so few wheelchair users. Given how tough it was for us, I guess they just don’t go out.

My DSIL in the US tells me that we lead more of an outdoor life than they do because we can walk to school, the parks, the beach etc. We go on long walks more too ( though she pointed out that there's often a pub stop at the end of the walk!). Her kids live in a massive house and have a massive garden but literally can't get milk without getting in the car - there's no sidewalks once you're out of their gated neighbourhood. They also live somewhere unbearably hot for 3-4 months of the year so spend a lot of time being in aircon. They spend most of their time driving to stuff.